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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 2:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I've never seen any evidence that Bulgak can play at this level. There's a difference between being available and being a WNBA contributor.

I could be wrong, of course but relying on Adit Bulgak to save your team at this point seems a lot like relying on the tooth fairy to put a $100 bill under your pillow when you go in to have a crown replaced.


My reading skills must be deteriorating. I didn't see anyone here expecting Adit Bulgak to "save" our team.

Did someone propose that we could trade Tina Charles because Adit Bulgak would give us 21.5 points and 9.9 rebounds per game in 2017? I guess I must have missed that. Smile



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Regarding the Libs' 3 point shooting, if Piph and Rodgers wind up playing together and Charles continues to improve from the arc, that part of it will be fine. In Minnesota's starting 5, only Maya Moore is a major 3 point threat and it didn't impede them. Z is what she is, a decent mid-range shooter and penetrator. But if Boyd could improve her mid-range shot to where it's consistent (not saying that's going to happen) she'd be just fine. She wouldn't need to shoot from 3 with her speed and quickness if her mid-range game was in the Lindsay Whalen neighborhood. Again, not saying she will improve in that area. Just saying I don't think 3 point shooting is the Libs' biggest issue by any stretch.

I am far more interested in seeing how they upgrade their size so as to create more mismatches in their favor. Could you win with a lineup of Piph, Rodgers, Zellous/Allen, Charles and Swords/Stokes? I think that maybe you can. But I think that's also going to represent a major, major identity change for a team that honestly didn't do a whole lot of winning when Wright and Cash were out of the starting lineup the last two years. Obviously Cash skill-wise is easily replaced. But she brought something to the team that wouldn't be measured in stats alone.

I've flip-flopped on this a lot and I admit it. For a time I thought the above starting 5 could be close to championship caliber. Talent-wise it's pretty darn good, especially with the Libs' bench strength. But I'm not sure how I feel about the size, and the D at the point of attack. A lot of the time on Saturday Phoenix got off shots over our outstretched hands because we didn't have the length to contest some of their shooters. Luckily, two of the league's matchup nightmares (Taylor and Catch) are retiring.

That being said, I am still going to be interested to see what transpires moving forward. I'm not too sold that the Libs are going to stand by and allow themselves to be outsized at multiple positions on defense. When you look at how much missing Stokes hurt the Libs defensively, this is the first area you look at. I think they will be vested in trying to make sure that the team defense isn't so keyed by two players.

Is Alba Torrens still Connecticut property? If not I would personally like to fly to Spain (preferably on the Liberty organization's dime...my persuasion skills are really good) and sell her on the benefits of coming to the WNBA and NYC. I think she'd be great as a player who supports the other scorers rather than one who you ask to be THE scorer. She'd be a 6'3" small forward, which would instantly give the Libs hugely advantageous matchups on the offensive end.

I know it isn't going to happen. But hey, a guy can dream.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 7:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I believe Torrens is still CT property, but more importantly, she doesn't seem that excited about coming over. The last interview I read, it was on the "yeah, probably someday" level of interest.

I think Allen is going to be good after a little more experience. If you want to buy her another year, how about bringing in a veteran like Currie? Mo looks like she still has a little gas in the tank. She might be a UFA so it wouldn't cost anything, and I know Laimbeer liked her a lot in college.

As far as a big PG goes, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head. I always liked Chelsea Gray, but I doubt you could pry her away from LA. Two winters ago I liked Xargay, but obviously she's taken. Sydney Wiese is available in the draft, but I doubt she'll fall out of the first round. Also, she's not really known for her defense. Shacobia Barbee is a solidly built 5-10 Tanisha Wright-ish guard. Maybe we get very, very, very lucky and she surprises us. Smile


myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As discussed elsewhere, if Camille Little is a UFA, the Libs should offer her whatever they can to bring her in. She would be a great addition to the team.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 7:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not sure Laimbeer would sign any bigs smaller than Tina at this point. I don't think they ever want her playing C. And I like Little quite a bit. But I think the priority is developing Stokes and Zahui rather than giving some of their minutes to a vet who might not fit the prototype of what they want.



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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 09/26/16 7:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 7:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I believe Torrens is still CT property, but more importantly, she doesn't seem that excited about coming over. The last interview I read, it was on the "yeah, probably someday" level of interest.

I think Allen is going to be good after a little more experience. If you want to buy her another year, how about bringing in a veteran like Currie? Mo looks like she still has a little gas in the tank. She might be a UFA so it wouldn't cost anything, and I know Laimbeer liked her a lot in college.

As far as a big PG goes, I can't think of anyone off the top of my head. I always liked Chelsea Gray, but I doubt you could pry her away from LA. Two winters ago I liked Xargay, but obviously she's taken. Sydney Wiese is available in the draft, but I doubt she'll fall out of the first round. Also, she's not really known for her defense. Shacobia Barbee is a solidly built 5-10 Tanisha Wright-ish guard. Maybe we get very, very, very lucky and she surprises us. Smile


Man, I hate Currie. Very Happy But she could be useful and at this point probably wouldn't mind playing a limited role.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is Big Bill desperate enough to make a K.Stokes for O.Sims trade ?


toad455



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Liberty could always go after one of the Mystics four PGs. Is Mitchell available. Would love for her to come back to NY!



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 8:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I'm not sure Laimbeer would sign any bigs smaller than Tina at this point. I don't think they ever want her playing C. And I like Little quite a bit. But I think the priority is developing Stokes and Zahui rather than giving some of their minutes to a vet who might not fit the prototype of what they want.


Not sure how Camille doesn't 'fit'. She replaces(and is an improvement on) Swin as a savvy vet who plays hard and can play some SF when you want to go big, as well as backing up Tina at PF. She also defends (better than Tina in fact) and has an outside shot. I think Swords and Stokes continue to play the C and Zahui, who is definitely still a project at this point, continues to get some garbage minutes. She is the worst defensively of these posts and until that improves, she won't be in the main rotation (JMO). Even slower posts seem to go right around her. On the negative side, Little's numbers were down this year so not sure if that means she's on the downhill side of her career or if it is just a reflection of how she was used. So I guess it depends on what your choices are in FA but she looks pretty good to me and it would mean you don't have to give away an asset to get her. (unless you consider Bulgak an asset).



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
The Liberty could always go after one of the Mystics four PGs. Is Mitchell available. Would love for her to come back to NY!


I love FLB, but Bill likes 'em big and she ain't that. After the way he used her, if I were her, NY would not be at the top of my list of desired destinations.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 8:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Is Big Bill desperate enough to make a K.Stokes for O.Sims trade ?


no.



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 8:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Is Big Bill desperate enough to make a K.Stokes for O.Sims trade ?


Sims is so not an Evil Bill type guard



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 8:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I'm not sure Laimbeer would sign any bigs smaller than Tina at this point. I don't think they ever want her playing C. And I like Little quite a bit. But I think the priority is developing Stokes and Zahui rather than giving some of their minutes to a vet who might not fit the prototype of what they want.


Not sure how Camille doesn't 'fit'. She replaces(and is an improvement on) Swin as a savvy vet who plays hard and can play some SF when you want to go big, as well as backing up Tina at PF. She also defends (better than Tina in fact) and has an outside shot. I think Swords and Stokes continue to play the C and Zahui, who is definitely still a project at this point, continues to get some garbage minutes. She is the worst defensively of these posts and until that improves, she won't be in the main rotation (JMO). Even slower posts seem to go right around her. On the negative side, Little's numbers were down this year so not sure if that means she's on the downhill side of her career or if it is just a reflection of how she was used. So I guess it depends on what your choices are in FA but she looks pretty good to me and it would mean you don't have to give away an asset to get her. (unless you consider Bulgak an asset).


I don't see Little as an effective SF. If I'm wrong and she could handle it I would welcome her. But if she can't handle it that limits her to the 4 spot. A spot where she can defend well but a spot where Tina would have to play center if they are both on the floor in post positions. If she's only a 4, there's no way the Liberty are going to have Tina be the primary rim defender. I think it's been established they don't want her in a Center's role at all. On the offensive end, Little's FG numbers have been in a multi-year decline, in offenses much better oriented to her style of play than NY would be.

I didn't see Zahui's defensive play as a continual struggle. It was definitely a struggle at times, with the beginning of the season being horrible and the end of the season featuring her struggling against players she was forced to match up to in Kiah's absence. I don't think that means she can't improve. There will probably be an expectation that she work out in a certain manner to get stronger and leaner. Footwork will be a project I'm sure as will improving her hands and post moves. But she's very young. I wouldn't pencil her in as a poor defender forever. She's got to get on the floor to improve.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 8:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Is Big Bill desperate enough to make a K.Stokes for O.Sims trade ?


I thought the post-Olympic break did even more to demonstrate Stokes' value in how poor the Libs often were defensively in her absence.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 9:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Is Big Bill desperate enough to make a K.Stokes for O.Sims trade ?


I thought the post-Olympic break did even more to demonstrate Stokes' value in how poor the Libs often were defensively in her absence.


Absolutely. I don't think Stokes was quite as good defensively in 2016 as she was in 2015. Nevertheless, the post-Olympic break vividly demonstrated how much she was missed. And we'll always wonder how the recent playoff game against Phoenix might have been different if we'd had 25 or 30 minutes from a fully healthy Stokes.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
toad455 wrote:
The Liberty could always go after one of the Mystics four PGs. Is Mitchell available. Would love for her to come back to NY!


I love FLB, but Bill likes 'em big and she ain't that. After the way he used her, if I were her, NY would not be at the top of my list of desired destinations.


No way that Bill Laimbeer will bring back Leilani Mitchell. Whatever any of us think of her, Laimbeer made it obvious that he wasn't a great fan.



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 9:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Is Big Bill desperate enough to make a K.Stokes for O.Sims trade ?


Sims is so not an Evil Bill type guard


He seemed to be hoping Sims would drop to #4 when he was scouting talent in 2014, but Sims hype was strong back then and maybe he's not so high on her now.



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 10:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PG was a heavier need in 2014. And at draft time, he was probably uncertain about what role Cruz could fill as well.



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PostPosted: 09/26/16 11:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the Liberty make any trades, they're likely to send a guard away -- a 2 guard. They have too many. There's no way they trade a post player for a guard unless it's some kind of lopsided deal in their favor. Smile

As for Sims, I don't think you can simply judge her or any Dallas player based on what's been happening there. Whatever you call Fred's systems on either end of the court, they're a mess. Sims was known as a good all-around player in college. I think she can get back to being that person. Now, whether there's a good trade available with NY is another question. I don't see a match.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 09/27/16 12:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
If the Liberty make any trades, they're likely to send a guard away -- a 2 guard. They have too many. There's no way they trade a post player for a guard unless it's some kind of lopsided deal in their favor. Smile

As for Sims, I don't think you can simply judge her or any Dallas player based on what's been happening there. Whatever you call Fred's systems on either end of the court, they're a mess. Sims was known as a good all-around player in college. I think she can get back to being that person. Now, whether there's a good trade available with NY is another question. I don't see a match.


It may be that the Liberty won't make any big trades in this offseason. But if there is a big trade, it has to include Sugar Rodgers. I'm not advocating getting rid of Rodgers. But no other team is going to give up a significant player for Epiphanny Prince, Tanisha Wright, or Shavonte Zellous. All three are valuable players, but for different reasons their trade value can't be all that high.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 09/27/16 10:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
If the Liberty make any trades, they're likely to send a guard away -- a 2 guard. They have too many. There's no way they trade a post player for a guard unless it's some kind of lopsided deal in their favor. Smile

As for Sims, I don't think you can simply judge her or any Dallas player based on what's been happening there. Whatever you call Fred's systems on either end of the court, they're a mess. Sims was known as a good all-around player in college. I think she can get back to being that person. Now, whether there's a good trade available with NY is another question. I don't see a match.


It may be that the Liberty won't make any big trades in this offseason. But if there is a big trade, it has to include Sugar Rodgers. I'm not advocating getting rid of Rodgers. But no other team is going to give up a significant player for Epiphanny Prince, Tanisha Wright, or Shavonte Zellous. All three are valuable players, but for different reasons their trade value can't be all that high.


Zellous still has value. It doesn't have to be a "big" trade. If you can exchange her for a similar level player -- quality backup, serviceable starter -- at 1, 3 or even 4/5, then it's worth considering. Why be too deep at one position and thin in other places? Teams are usually better off with good roster balance.


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PostPosted: 09/27/16 11:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
If the Liberty make any trades, they're likely to send a guard away -- a 2 guard. They have too many. There's no way they trade a post player for a guard unless it's some kind of lopsided deal in their favor. Smile

As for Sims, I don't think you can simply judge her or any Dallas player based on what's been happening there. Whatever you call Fred's systems on either end of the court, they're a mess. Sims was known as a good all-around player in college. I think she can get back to being that person. Now, whether there's a good trade available with NY is another question. I don't see a match.


It may be that the Liberty won't make any big trades in this offseason. But if there is a big trade, it has to include Sugar Rodgers. I'm not advocating getting rid of Rodgers. But no other team is going to give up a significant player for Epiphanny Prince, Tanisha Wright, or Shavonte Zellous. All three are valuable players, but for different reasons their trade value can't be all that high.


Zellous still has value. It doesn't have to be a "big" trade. If you can exchange her for a similar level player -- quality backup, serviceable starter -- at 1, 3 or even 4/5, then it's worth considering. Why be too deep at one position and thin in other places? Teams are usually better off with good roster balance.

Unless they're going to trust Allen or Zellous to play heavy minutes as a 3, something as simple as Zellous straight up for Mo Currie probably makes New York better. Somebody's going to have to play small forward next season.



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PostPosted: 09/27/16 12:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
If the Liberty make any trades, they're likely to send a guard away -- a 2 guard. They have too many. There's no way they trade a post player for a guard unless it's some kind of lopsided deal in their favor. Smile

As for Sims, I don't think you can simply judge her or any Dallas player based on what's been happening there. Whatever you call Fred's systems on either end of the court, they're a mess. Sims was known as a good all-around player in college. I think she can get back to being that person. Now, whether there's a good trade available with NY is another question. I don't see a match.


It may be that the Liberty won't make any big trades in this offseason. But if there is a big trade, it has to include Sugar Rodgers. I'm not advocating getting rid of Rodgers. But no other team is going to give up a significant player for Epiphanny Prince, Tanisha Wright, or Shavonte Zellous. All three are valuable players, but for different reasons their trade value can't be all that high.


Zellous still has value. It doesn't have to be a "big" trade. If you can exchange her for a similar level player -- quality backup, serviceable starter -- at 1, 3 or even 4/5, then it's worth considering. Why be too deep at one position and thin in other places? Teams are usually better off with good roster balance.


As I said above, I believe this team needs at least one more genuine star. I don't believe that the 2017 Liberty can win a championship with the current roster + likely improvement from younger players + a possible trade of someone like Zellous for a quality backup or a "serviceable" starter to provide more balance. . Others have disagreed and I certainly may be proven wrong. I hope I am.

If there isn't going to be what I'd consider a big trade, then, yes, it certainly would be worth considering trading Zellous for a quality backup or a serviceable starter that would give the team more roster balance.



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PostPosted: 09/27/16 12:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
If the Liberty make any trades, they're likely to send a guard away -- a 2 guard. They have too many. There's no way they trade a post player for a guard unless it's some kind of lopsided deal in their favor. Smile

As for Sims, I don't think you can simply judge her or any Dallas player based on what's been happening there. Whatever you call Fred's systems on either end of the court, they're a mess. Sims was known as a good all-around player in college. I think she can get back to being that person. Now, whether there's a good trade available with NY is another question. I don't see a match.


It may be that the Liberty won't make any big trades in this offseason. But if there is a big trade, it has to include Sugar Rodgers. I'm not advocating getting rid of Rodgers. But no other team is going to give up a significant player for Epiphanny Prince, Tanisha Wright, or Shavonte Zellous. All three are valuable players, but for different reasons their trade value can't be all that high.


Zellous still has value. It doesn't have to be a "big" trade. If you can exchange her for a similar level player -- quality backup, serviceable starter -- at 1, 3 or even 4/5, then it's worth considering. Why be too deep at one position and thin in other places? Teams are usually better off with good roster balance.

Unless they're going to trust Allen or Zellous to play heavy minutes as a 3, something as simple as Zellous straight up for Mo Currie probably makes New York better. Somebody's going to have to play small forward next season.


I doubt Zellous left the security of IND to become a trade piece for NYL after one year. Can't see it. It may also cause future FA's to be wary of NYL.



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PostPosted: 09/27/16 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:

I doubt Zellous left the security of IND to become a trade piece for NYL after one year. Can't see it. It may also cause future FA's to be wary of NYL.


Zellous left the security of Indiana because they couldn't afford her. The Fever basically said as much afterwards. Also, Shavonte knew that Prince's injury was one of the reasons NY wanted her. I'm sure she was aware that Piph's return could change things. She also got to see Rodgers' improvement up close and personal. No one ever signs to be traded, but circumstances change. If it looks like her playing time is going to be greatly reduced, then Zellous may very well prefer to be traded.


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