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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/17/16 11:11 pm    ::: Dallas Wings 2017 Reply Reply with quote

Dallas' core is intact moving forward - veteran forward Plenette Pierson is the only contributor who is an unrestricted free agent on the roster this offseason.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/other-sports/wnba/2016/09/17/wings-first-dallas-season-go-planned-talent-roster-gives-reason-hope



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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/17/16 11:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if Plenette might try and move herself to a potential title contender? But their first move should be to fire Fred Williams.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 2:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

1.I'm going to repeat what i've said the last three offseasons.If Paris does not significantly improved her game(Conditioning,Jump shot FT shooting) she should be demoted to the bench or traded.Enough with the excuses and coddling.You can't have championship aspirations starting the worst defensive center in the league.Can you make the playoffs with Courtney ? Yes.But can you win a title ? absolutely not.

2.Trade Sims.Her game has regressed and she's very moody.Sims and Diggins are incompatible on both sides of the ball.They don't complement each other.Powers is the future at SG.Aerial is a legit 25+ minute player and would be an immediate defensive upgrade over Sims.Keeping Sims will only stunt Aerial's growth as a player.If Dallas acquires DRob in a trade,Powers can continue coming off the bench(24-28 mpg)

What Dallas should try to do is package Sims for one or two of the players listed below.

Stokes
Bonner
Dolson/Copper
Robinson
Lavender

3.I love Pierson & Johnson,but playing them extended minutes together at the 4/5 was a failure.Both players are undersize and too injury-prone to play center.I'm surprised coach Williams never expirimented with a linuep of Paris,johnson & Pierson.I Don't see Dallas being successful playing both players 25-30 minutes.

4.Dallas needs to add some bench depth.

5.Fire Fred....No accountability and poor player development He's too much of a players coach.

6.Hopefully Skylar can regain her 2014/15 form.

7.Draft ?????.....too early to make a prediction.




Last edited by zune69 on 09/18/16 6:58 am; edited 1 time in total
Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 6:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

you do know appel is retiring right?

anyway...I agree Dallas' issue was too many knuckleheads...while Johnson is on that list the play by Me-Me er I mean Oddesey Sims was of biggest concern.

Fred I agree too long a leash also didn't use Erin Phillips properly IMHO...could have been a difference maker and a stabilizing veteran and it just did not happen.

Lavender is a good player to shoot for...she's stuck with the Parker Nekka experience since one of the big keys to the Sparks turnaround was Agler realizing you can't have both at the same time.

Pierson I'd bring back tho I'd bring in someone to reduce her role, think she still can be a good presence in limited minutes.

NY is not dumping Stokes I don't believe, with Rogers I don't seem like they'd give up stokes for someone like sims their issue is getting a small forward (Know Rogers is restricted but most RFAs are brought back...with Cash retiring that should free up cap room to do so)

Don't think Mike is selling copper...Troll Doll on the other hand would be a nice get and they NEED a shooter bad...may work

I'm not a believer in robinson being traded but we'll see

Lav would be my first choice...remember you still have the rights to Cambage to try to wheel off...she always said she would play no questions asked for the sparks...let's see where this takes em.

I think fred is the first thing to go tho. He did a bad job this year team was a playoff contender and losing 11 straight just shouldn't happen here.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 7:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:
you do know appel is retiring right?


Now I do Laughing Laughing Laughing

Happycappie25 wrote:

Fred I agree too long a leash also didn't use Erin Phillips properly IMHO...could have been a difference maker and a stabilizing veteran and it just did not happen.


I agree with this 100%.Phillips is an excellent defender and very good at spacing the floor.I've taken shots at Erin in the past,but I was really impressed with her maturity as a person and player.Phillips minutes average was the 2nd lowest of her career.But her attitude and body language stayed positive unlike some of her teammates.Erin put up solid percentages across the board 44/37/90.Coach williams puts to much weight in scoring pts.If Erin had averaged 6-8 more mpg and Fred ran a few plays for her,there's a good chance Dallas would've made the playoffs.Fred did not give his bench(Phillips,Hooper,Kiesel,Plaisance)much of an opportunity.


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 11:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Don't take my Lav Shocked

Actually Lav deserves to really shine like she can and be a starter with a good PG.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Lavender is available, the Sparks will have no shortage of offers.



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Don't take my Lav Shocked

Actually Lav deserves to really shine like she can and be a starter with a good PG.

Kind of like she had on Ohio State Wink



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Lavender is accepting of being a bench player (and winning Sixth Player could help on that end), then the Sparks would be silly to give her up.

I was thinking some kind of combination of trade that involved Lavender and Diggins, but the Sparks don't really need much help at guard with the lineup of Toliver, CGray, Dabovic, and Beard. If the Sparks pick up Tolo, they'll be sitting pretty in the post with Parker, Ogwumike, Lavender, and Tolo. Bye Gruda or Wauters. The only thing they might need is an upgrade over Carson, but giving up Lav wouldn't be worth that. The Sparks will be drafting top 4 and it's a good class for SF's: DeShields (if early), Coffey (convert), Davis (convert), Walker-Kimbrough (might be a stretch at SF), Vivians (if early). Maybe Agler's foreign scouts can find a gem at SF.

On paper if things go well, Sparks might be the scariest team next year. Lavender is part of that scariness.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 2:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You know, Christmas has turned into a solid vet in the league. That might be somebody that could interest Agler. How about Christmas plus one or two first rounders (DAL has three first rounders) for Lavender? I probably wouldn't do it if I were the Sparks, but that might be something that's close to tempting.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 2:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
If Lavender is accepting of being a bench player (and winning Sixth Player could help on that end), then the Sparks would be silly to give her up.

I was thinking some kind of combination of trade that involved Lavender and Diggins, but the Sparks don't really need much help at guard with the lineup of Toliver, CGray, Dabovic, and Beard. If the Sparks pick up Tolo, they'll be sitting pretty in the post with Parker, Ogwumike, Lavender, and Tolo. Bye Gruda or Wauters. The only thing they might need is an upgrade over Carson, but giving up Lav wouldn't be worth that. The Sparks will be drafting top 4 and it's a good class for SF's: DeShields (if early), Coffey (convert), Davis (convert), Walker-Kimbrough (might be a stretch at SF), Vivians (if early). Maybe Agler's foreign scouts can find a gem at SF.

On paper if things go well, Sparks might be the scariest team next year. Lavender is part of that scariness.


Scariest team on paper does not equal scariest team on the court.Paker is starting to show signs of wear and tear and is a mediocre defender at best.As good as Lavender is at shooting jump shots,she is a average defender at best.Jantel's impact in a playoff series versus minny/phoenix will be limited due to the lack of minutes at PF/C.Having a player like Sims would give them a legit 15-20 pt option on the perimeter.Trading Diggins for Lavender would be idiotic.Diggins led Tulsa to a 8-1 start last season mostly without Sims.She is the face of the franchise and a great teammate in the lockerroom.Sims should never be the #1 option on a basketball team.Odyssey would be perfect as the 3rd/4th option on the sparks.

Lavender is a better fit on Dallas.Sims is a better fit on the sparks.


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 2:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yep, Diggins may have led Tulsa to a 8-1 stretch. But more recently Diggins led Dallas to a 0-11 stretch. I suppose that overlooked detail doesn't sound good in a sales pitch.

Are you forgetting Sims is a Dallas girl? I think it'll be a factor. Also, Sims has finished the season strong. I think the reality is they're both staying.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 2:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Yep, Diggins may have led Tulsa to a 8-1 stretch. But more recently Diggins led Dallas to a 0-11 stretch. I suppose that overlooked detail doesn't sound good in a sales pitch.


Come on shades,Diggins is one season removed from a major knee injury.We can't blame Her for the wings 11 game losing streak.

Shades wrote:
Are you forgetting Sims is a Dallas girl? I think it'll be a factor. Also, Sims has finished the season strong. I think the reality is they're both staying.

Finish the season strong ?......Sims came off the bench versus the liberty and scored 5 pts on 2-9 shooting,and followed that game up with a 3 pt, 0-3 performance against the Sun.Sims is shooting 35% for the season.


zune69



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 3:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The season is not over yet.Lets see how LA/Jantel performs in the playoffs.If the sparks win a championship all trade talks involving Lavender will come to an end.


UK1996



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 3:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Dallas's roster needs an over haul. Dallas has a bunch of talented young players that don't seem to fit. Maybe Dallas could try and send Sims and Paris to San Antonio for McBride, Alexander, and San Antonio's lottery pick. They could then decide to either trade the pick for a solid center like Lavender or even take a risk on someone like Bone or Cheyenne Parker They could just keep the pick and take a risk on someone like Coates or Jones. This year's draft does not have a clear #1 pick. Someone may suprise you in the college season. This obviously leaves a big if at center but 1-4 are very solid.

PG: Diggins/Bias
SG: McBride/Phillips
SF: Christmas/Powers/Hooper or #1
PF: Johnson/Pierson
C: Alexander/Plaiscance/#1 or Hamblin



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Last edited by UK1996 on 09/19/16 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
toad455



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

we've seen this season with Dallas with how out of control Sims can be. The question is does Dallas keep her? trade her for a center? I think there's going to be a lot of changes to Dallas' roster this offseason. Also, Pierson is a UFA. Does she return or go elsewhere? The only locks on this roster for 2017 should be Diggins, Phillips, Christmas, Powers & Johnson. I also like Coates her in Dallas.

PG: Phillips/Bias
SG: Diggins/Christmas
SF: Powers/Hopper
PF: Johnson/Pierson?
C: Coates/Paris
Add in whoever they get for Sims.



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ChicagoAnnie



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 6:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Don't take my Lav Shocked

Actually Lav deserves to really shine like she can and be a starter with a good PG.


no disrespect to candace, perhaps she's not healthy enough to give it her all (EVERY GAME)... or bored with the whole thing... Give Parker the boot, and let the Lav/Nneka reign begin......
Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation Exclamation


Jet Jaguar



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 8:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
we've seen this season with Dallas with how out of control Sims can be. The question is does Dallas keep her? trade her for a center? I think there's going to be a lot of changes to Dallas' roster this offseason. Also, Pierson is a UFA. Does she return or go elsewhere? The only locks on this roster for 2017 should be Diggins, Phillips, Christmas, Powers & Johnson. I also like Coates her in Dallas.

PG: Phillips/Bias
SG: Diggins/Christmas
SF: Powers/Hopper
PF: Johnson/Pierson?
C: Coates/Paris
Add in whoever they get for Sims.

Phillips/Bias at point guard. That's going to work out like a charm Laughing



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 9:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree with most of the points in the thread so far, best thing that could happen to Dallas get the #2 pick draft Coates, use Coates and Paris as a two headed center.

Trade Sims (or Diggins since I don't think they work well together but think Sims is more likely.) I still think Sims could be great, this year she thought it was her job to score all the points with both Johnson and Diggins missing a lot of games and not being 100% in some games they played, and with R. Williams traded away. This lead to not setting up team mates, and putting up too many bad shots. She played well on the select team and in the previous season when she didn't have that hero ball mind set.

The trades I would look into though I don't know how willing partners will be with Sims coming off a poor shooting season.

Sims for D-Rob
Sims for Bonner
Sims for Lavender (but I agree with Shades LA has no reason to do this, they have a strong guard core, and have R. Williams still to activate when healthy, and have been very successful this year with their three headed post. The fact that Lavender desrves to start has nothing to do with LA's needs.)
I like Sims but I wouldn't trade Stokes or Rodgers for her (which as a fan might show where here true trade values lies, which is lower, than most of us associate with Sims).
Sims for Kizer
Sims for Vaughn and a 2nd round pick
the last two seem closer to realistic
but I'm going with Sims for D-Rob. SA would be a little small but I think Sims playing between Jefferson and McBride would make for a very potent offwnsive combo for SA on the perimeter, and maybe with a new GM and Robinson coming off injury bith teams would be willing to role the dice.

I would also re-sign Pierson and hope for a healthy GloJo

D-Rob/Philips
Diggins/Christmas
Powers/Hooper
GloJo/Pierson
Coates/Paris

Seems a little more balanced than this year, and likely stronger on the defensive end. They need another shooter and another post, but I wouldn't hate this team if I was a wings fan.

Maybe bring in a more defensive minded coach like Ross (I think that is the right name, assistant in Atlanta had a mediocre result as a head coach in LA, but has the tools to do better IMO.


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 10:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Spooner, I forgot all about RWilliams. That just reinforces the notion that the Sparks don't need to trade for a guard.

I wouldn't be so eager to dump home girl Sims. Let's try dumping the coach first, and see what happens.

DRob represents a certain amount of risk for any team. Wiggins used to be a slasher before her Achilles injury. Then she converted to a three point specialist (probably not an option for DRob). After she left the Lynx, she had a fairly uneventful career until she retired. Is DRob going to be the same DRob she was before. All the valuations I've seen of DRob seem to think so.


Oh, and Christmas. She and maybe Plaisance are the only two players on this team that showed any improvement, and she earns second string and Powers starts? Hopefully this is just some sort of oversight.



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Last edited by Shades on 09/18/16 10:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 10:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
If Lavender is accepting of being a bench player (and winning Sixth Player could help on that end), then the Sparks would be silly to give her up.

I was thinking some kind of combination of trade that involved Lavender and Diggins, but the Sparks don't really need much help at guard with the lineup of Toliver, CGray, Dabovic, and Beard. If the Sparks pick up Tolo, they'll be sitting pretty in the post with Parker, Ogwumike, Lavender, and Tolo. Bye Gruda or Wauters. The only thing they might need is an upgrade over Carson, but giving up Lav wouldn't be worth that. The Sparks will be drafting top 4 and it's a good class for SF's: DeShields (if early), Coffey (convert), Davis (convert), Walker-Kimbrough (might be a stretch at SF), Vivians (if early). Maybe Agler's foreign scouts can find a gem at SF.

On paper if things go well, Sparks might be the scariest team next year. Lavender is part of that scariness.


agree pretty much all around with this assessment - and they'll have Bay Bay as well at guard. We'll see how soon she can get to 100%. Clearly SF is the area where they should try to improve. I love Essence but she is the weakest link here. Coming off the bench would just increase their depth that much more. Just not sure any of the rookies will be good enough to displace her. Deshields could be... maybe...but then they'd have one more pouter on the team. Two seems to be plenty. I do like Coffey longer term but lots to learn as a rookie. And I like Shatori but she'll be a SG - just too slight of build in this day and age for SF. Dabovic has enough size - I could see them possibly converting her to SF. In fact I've wondered why they don't play her there already. Then next year they're pretty set (barring injury). Just take best available and be happy to add depth. And Alana is getting long in the tooth so not sure how long you count on her production. LA should have happy days ahead.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/18/16 11:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Christmas is a good all around player, she has earned her spot as a major rotational player whether she is a starter or coming off the bench, and is a great example for how if you are a decent player and work hard you can become a legit players in the W but yeah, I think Powers is going to be a starter for Dallas sooner rather than later, and her ceiling is way higher than Christmas' and if Dallas is going to move up they need their "star" youngsters to live up to their potential more than they need a steady veteran as a starter, though having that steady veteran is a very important piece to the puzzle. Christmas is closer to a Pierson type and Powers is closer to a GloJo. You can get by starting a Pierson but to move forward you want to be starting a GloJo.


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PostPosted: 09/19/16 1:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Now because of the way this season played out this might seem crazy but

Sims for Bone

It might be one of those trades that could work wonders for both teams and both players. Bone is a lot better than she showed this season and becoming a starter in Dallas could fix all that was wrong with her this season and could be a big improvement for Dallas. If it doesn't pan out Paris is still there to split the minutes. (And with this trade both Christmas and Powers get to start, unless you move Philips up to start at PG).

Diggins, Christmas, Powers, GloJo, Bone
bench Philips, Hooper, Pierson, Plaisance, Paris
draft a big guard who plays defense Scaife, Walker-Kimbrough or trade the pick for someone like TRP or S. Johnson with additional filler if need be

PX needs some young guard talent, and they get a fully formed one rather than a project, and she's already got chemistry with Griner. And with the vets in PX I doubt Sims will be playing me ball, I mean seriously how do you guard?

Sims, Taurasi, Bonner, Dupree, Griner


Luuuc



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PostPosted: 09/19/16 1:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hmmm.... let me think about that one for a while ok yes done.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/19/16 1:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Now because of the way this season played out this might seem crazy but

Sims for Bone

It might be one of those trades that could work wonders for both teams and both players. Bone is a lot better than she showed this season and becoming a starter in Dallas could fix all that was wrong with her this season and could be a big improvement for Dallas. If it doesn't pan out Paris is still there to split the minutes. (And with this trade both Christmas and Powers get to start, unless you move Philips up to start at PG).

Diggins, Christmas, Powers, GloJo, Bone
bench Philips, Hooper, Pierson, Plaisance, Paris
draft a big guard who plays defense Scaife, Walker-Kimbrough or trade the pick for someone like TRP or S. Johnson with additional filler if need be

PX needs some young guard talent, and they get a fully formed one rather than a project, and she's already got chemistry with Griner. And with the vets in PX I doubt Sims will be playing me ball, I mean seriously how do you guard?

Sims, Taurasi, Bonner, Dupree, Griner


OK with the speed a PX fan agreed maybe Dallas should see if PX will also include it first round pick.

Sims for Bone and PX's first round pick #5 in a weak draft does that seem more balanced


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