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boogiezen
Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Posts: 1142
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
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Posted: 08/26/16 7:46 am ::: |
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Nerd2 wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
Michelle89 wrote: |
How would people have reacted if Catchings was left off the team instead of Parker? Would you be happy then? I think Catchings takes it better being the last or 2nd to last in the rotation |
Why should she have to be second last in the rotation when she's the best at her position? |
I was in Rio for every game and had it confirmed - again - that Parker's omission was because of her attitude. She thought that her pure skill allowed her to demand a bigger role but she forgot that there were other players at her position who might not be quite as good but who were good enough to help win gold. USA BB has said all along that it is not just about skill but the ability to blend with the other players to make the best team - it's not a merit-based all-star team of the very best at each position. Even if Geno was directly responsible for her getting cut (which I doubt), it doesn't matter. He assembled an absolutely dominant team and won the gold with no doubt. It was Candace who missed out on the opportunity as Team USA was able to do just fine without her. And in 4 years, Stewart, Charles and Delle Donne will probably be the better players anyway so Parker may never be on an Olympic squad again. |
And again, you're wrong. How are the other players more capable of helping win gold than her? How does she not blend with other players? She did it just fine last time. Second in the league in assists. And I still have not seen a single person provide evidence of this perceived "attitude" problem. It's mainly UConn fans who say it because they still can't get over her beating their team nine years ago. And again, if attitude was the problem, there are at least five other players that shouldn't have been there.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 18815
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012 Posts: 2539
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Posted: 08/26/16 10:21 am ::: |
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Have to admit that I did not enjoy watching Parker before Agler took over the Sparks, I thought she was selfish and the role Ogwumike played was just clean up. Now Ogwumike is more involved thanks to Agler and having a wonderful season.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
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Posted: 08/26/16 10:38 am ::: |
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Nixtreefan wrote: |
Have to admit that I did not enjoy watching Parker before Agler took over the Sparks, I thought she was selfish and the role Ogwumike played was just clean up. Now Ogwumike is more involved thanks to Agler and having a wonderful season. |
She has never been selfish. Look at her career APG compared to all the other forwards and centers on the Olympic team.
Candace Parker - 3.8
Breanna Stewart - 3.6
Maya Moore - 3.4
Tamika Catchings - 3.3
Angel McCoughtry - 3.0
Tina Charles - 2.1
Elena Delle Donne - 1.6
Brittney Griner - 1.3
Sylvia Fowles - 0.8
I guess you'd have to call them all selfish. The only reason people say the things they do about her is because they hate her and can't find anything else to criticize.
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Nerd2
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 7659
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Posted: 08/26/16 2:54 pm ::: |
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zvyn3 wrote: |
It's mainly UConn fans who say it because they still can't get over her beating their team nine years ago |
I'm not a UConn fan and I say it. The only one holding on to 9 years ago are Vols fans anyway since that was the last time the program had a winner. UConn's gone on to get 6 NCs since then and so have a lot of other things to do than hold a grudge over an old loss.
zvyn3 wrote: |
And I still have not seen a single person provide evidence of this perceived "attitude" problem. |
That's because you have dismissed what was presented as irrelevant or motivated by jealousy. No one is going to come right out and say they dropped her because she was a diva. That would burn a bridge unnecessarily. But the fact remains that she was not on the team and the people chosen instead of her got the job done.
You can believe what you want. It just makes you look more like a hopeless homer instead of an analytical basketball fan. The reason Candace has so many assists is that she insists on bringing the ball up herself and initiating the offense instead of letting the guards do it. If that's not the definition of a selfish player - one who wants the ball in her hands as much as possible - then I don't know what is.
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jmpenn90
Joined: 09 May 2008 Posts: 461
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Posted: 08/26/16 7:21 pm ::: |
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Nerd2 wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
It's mainly UConn fans who say it because they still can't get over her beating their team nine years ago |
I'm not a UConn fan and I say it. The only one holding on to 9 years ago are Vols fans anyway since that was the last time the program had a winner. UConn's gone on to get 6 NCs since then and so have a lot of other things to do than hold a grudge over an old loss.
zvyn3 wrote: |
And I still have not seen a single person provide evidence of this perceived "attitude" problem. |
That's because you have dismissed what was presented as irrelevant or motivated by jealousy. No one is going to come right out and say they dropped her because she was a diva. That would burn a bridge unnecessarily. But the fact remains that she was not on the team and the people chosen instead of her got the job done.
You can believe what you want. It just makes you look more like a hopeless homer instead of an analytical basketball fan. The reason Candace has so many assists is that she insists on bringing the ball up herself and initiating the offense instead of letting the guards do it. If that's not the definition of a selfish player - one who wants the ball in her hands as much as possible - then I don't know what is. |
This is one of the most redicoulous arguments I have seen. So now she is selfish because she brings the ball up and passes it and gets lots of assists. If you can't see how redicoulous that sounds I don't know what to tell you. Her team is winning so I guess it works. Thanks for the good laugh.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
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Posted: 08/26/16 7:57 pm ::: |
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Nerd2 wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
It's mainly UConn fans who say it because they still can't get over her beating their team nine years ago |
I'm not a UConn fan and I say it. The only one holding on to 9 years ago are Vols fans anyway since that was the last time the program had a winner. UConn's gone on to get 6 NCs since then and so have a lot of other things to do than hold a grudge over an old loss.
zvyn3 wrote: |
And I still have not seen a single person provide evidence of this perceived "attitude" problem. |
That's because you have dismissed what was presented as irrelevant or motivated by jealousy. No one is going to come right out and say they dropped her because she was a diva. That would burn a bridge unnecessarily. But the fact remains that she was not on the team and the people chosen instead of her got the job done.
You can believe what you want. It just makes you look more like a hopeless homer instead of an analytical basketball fan. The reason Candace has so many assists is that she insists on bringing the ball up herself and initiating the offense instead of letting the guards do it. If that's not the definition of a selfish player - one who wants the ball in her hands as much as possible - then I don't know what is. |
Again, do you have any evidence of her having an attitude problem or being a selfish player? You do not. You're simply blinded by hatred.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
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Posted: 08/26/16 8:02 pm ::: |
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Are the majority of WBB fans total assholes, or is it just the ones on here?
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WfanFrJmp
Joined: 24 May 2016 Posts: 1428
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Posted: 08/26/16 10:29 pm ::: |
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Nope, we are not. Frankly, its pretty sad since we are all supporting WBB and outside of our blogs, boards, etc., there is more than enough negativity about the league and players that it would be nice to have passionate, but healthy discussions. Go Team USA! Go W!
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boogiezen
Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Posts: 1142
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 08/27/16 12:40 am ::: |
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zvyn3 wrote: |
Are the majority of WBB fans total assholes, or is it just the ones on here? |
Someone stating that they had actual first hand confirmation that Parker was left off the team because of her attitude is not someone being an "asshole".
We can debate all day whether or not that belief about her is fair or not, but ultimately it doesn't matter. At all. For whatever reason the Powers That Be within USAB feel that way about her. And it goes beyond Geno. And their opinions are the only ones that matter. Team USA is not a meritocracy, it is not an "all star" team, or some other entity that one can "deserve" to be on through talent and skill alone. It is an assembled team that has one goal: win a Gold Medal. Will they play favorites? Undoubtedly. The coach and committee are going to choose the players they feel gives them the best chance at winning, while also being people they want to be around. Since there is no such thing as "deserving" a spot on a subjectively assembled team the only way their choices are wrong is if they fail their goal.
Team USA didn't just not fail, but succeeded to a historic degree. Thus it seams ridiculous to complain about what the make up of the team was.
_________________ ββββββββBA
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Nerd2
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 7659
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Posted: 08/27/16 1:00 am ::: |
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zvyn3 wrote: |
Are the majority of WBB fans total assholes, or is it just the ones on here? |
Actually, there are a few of us in here who have actual connections so we are speaking from a slightly insider perspective. Doesn't really matter whether you believe me or not. She didn't win gold and she may never be on the USA BB squad again, just like Cappie Pondexter wasn't. And if it makes you feel better to stick with a simple explanation like juvenile hatred, go for it. Those people who have been on here longer might (or might not) believe it is more than that.
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 22163
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Posted: 08/27/16 1:31 am ::: |
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justintyme wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
Are the majority of WBB fans total assholes, or is it just the ones on here? |
Someone stating that they had actual first hand confirmation that Parker was left off the team because of her attitude is not someone being an "asshole".
We can debate all day whether or not that belief about her is fair or not, but ultimately it doesn't matter. At all. For whatever reason the Powers That Be within USAB feel that way about her. And it goes beyond Geno. And their opinions are the only ones that matter. Team USA is not a meritocracy, it is not an "all star" team, or some other entity that one can "deserve" to be on through talent and skill alone. It is an assembled team that has one goal: win a Gold Medal. Will they play favorites? Undoubtedly. The coach and committee are going to choose the players they feel gives them the best chance at winning, while also being people they want to be around. Since there is no such thing as "deserving" a spot on a subjectively assembled team the only way their choices are wrong is if they fail their goal.
Team USA didn't just not fail, but succeeded to a historic degree. Thus it seams ridiculous to complain about what the make up of the team was. |
If you're going to complain about the make up of an Olympic team, I'd start with Brazil personally.
_________________ Thanks for calling. I wait all night for calls like these.
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Nerd2
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 7659
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Posted: 08/27/16 1:40 am ::: |
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zvyn3 wrote: |
Again, do you have any evidence of her having an attitude problem or being a selfish player? You do not. You're simply blinded by hatred. |
I do. I have sources. And I have at least some reputation on the board as occasionally knowing things. I'm just a mild insider, though. You'll find a few of the people on this board have real insider knowledge. I have been watching women's basketball since 1997 and do not have any particular college affiliation, certainly not one to warrant "blind hatred" of any basketball player.
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Nerd2
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 7659
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Posted: 08/27/16 1:43 am ::: |
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Luuuc wrote: |
justintyme wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
Are the majority of WBB fans total assholes, or is it just the ones on here? |
Someone stating that they had actual first hand confirmation that Parker was left off the team because of her attitude is not someone being an "asshole".
We can debate all day whether or not that belief about her is fair or not, but ultimately it doesn't matter. At all. For whatever reason the Powers That Be within USAB feel that way about her. And it goes beyond Geno. And their opinions are the only ones that matter. Team USA is not a meritocracy, it is not an "all star" team, or some other entity that one can "deserve" to be on through talent and skill alone. It is an assembled team that has one goal: win a Gold Medal. Will they play favorites? Undoubtedly. The coach and committee are going to choose the players they feel gives them the best chance at winning, while also being people they want to be around. Since there is no such thing as "deserving" a spot on a subjectively assembled team the only way their choices are wrong is if they fail their goal.
Team USA didn't just not fail, but succeeded to a historic degree. Thus it seams ridiculous to complain about what the make up of the team was. |
If you're going to complain about the make up of an Olympic team, I'd start with Brazil personally. |
Does Brazil have anyone who can be an outside threat? It seems their top WNBA-caliber players were the three posts and they had no guards worth mentioning. Made for a slow game.
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
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Posted: 08/27/16 10:55 am ::: |
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Nerd2 wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
Again, do you have any evidence of her having an attitude problem or being a selfish player? You do not. You're simply blinded by hatred. |
I do. I have sources. And I have at least some reputation on the board as occasionally knowing things. I'm just a mild insider, though. You'll find a few of the people on this board have real insider knowledge. I have been watching women's basketball since 1997 and do not have any particular college affiliation, certainly not one to warrant "blind hatred" of any basketball player. |
Anyone can say they have sources.a It means nothing. I can say I have sources that she doesn't have an attitude problem. Do you not realize how utterly stupid that sounds? She's selfish because she PASSES THE BALL? That's when you know you're grasping at every straw possible because you have nothing else. If she wanted the ball in her hands as much as possible she wouldn't be passing it.
Last edited by zvyn3 on 08/27/16 2:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
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Posted: 08/27/16 10:57 am ::: |
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justintyme wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
Are the majority of WBB fans total assholes, or is it just the ones on here? |
Someone stating that they had actual first hand confirmation that Parker was left off the team because of her attitude is not someone being an "asshole".
We can debate all day whether or not that belief about her is fair or not, but ultimately it doesn't matter. At all. For whatever reason the Powers That Be within USAB feel that way about her. And it goes beyond Geno. And their opinions are the only ones that matter. Team USA is not a meritocracy, it is not an "all star" team, or some other entity that one can "deserve" to be on through talent and skill alone. It is an assembled team that has one goal: win a Gold Medal. Will they play favorites? Undoubtedly. The coach and committee are going to choose the players they feel gives them the best chance at winning, while also being people they want to be around. Since there is no such thing as "deserving" a spot on a subjectively assembled team the only way their choices are wrong is if they fail their goal.
Team USA didn't just not fail, but succeeded to a historic degree. Thus it seams ridiculous to complain about what the make up of the team was. |
If any coach in the world other than Geno was the coach, she would have been on the team. And if Geno wanted her on the team, she would have been on the team.
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boogiezen
Joined: 29 Nov 2004 Posts: 1142
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Posted: 08/27/16 12:02 pm ::: |
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^GET OVER IT.
_________________ Queen Yuna!
"Kim Yu-Na. A living, breathing work of art from Korea" - Cam Cole, Vancouver Sun
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
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Posted: 08/27/16 2:10 pm ::: |
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boogiezen wrote: |
^GET OVER IT. |
I'm not going to get over it. Maybe you should get over your irrational hatred of Candace Parker.
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Nerd2
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 7659
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Posted: 08/27/16 2:41 pm ::: |
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zvyn3 wrote: |
boogiezen wrote: |
^GET OVER IT. |
I'm not going to get over it. Maybe you should get over your irrational hatred of Candace Parker. |
At this point, the irrationality is yours. Multiple people have pointed out many things and your only answer it to christen us all UConn supporters who have a hatred of Parker based on a game 9 years ago. Given that UConn has had wild success since then while Tennessee has dropped to not even the best in its own conference, I'd say the only one holding on to old hatreds is you.
I watched Candace play last night and saw the same pouty, me-first player I always did. Nneka Ogwumike is the best player on the Sparks team right now and deserves much of the credit for where that team is. Candace was finally pulled in favor of Jantel Lavender. She had the worst defensive rating of any of the starters yesterday and the worst offensive rating of anyone who played last night.
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Nerd2
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 7659
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Posted: 08/27/16 3:03 pm ::: |
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zvyn3 wrote: |
justintyme wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
Are the majority of WBB fans total assholes, or is it just the ones on here? |
Someone stating that they had actual first hand confirmation that Parker was left off the team because of her attitude is not someone being an "asshole".
We can debate all day whether or not that belief about her is fair or not, but ultimately it doesn't matter. At all. For whatever reason the Powers That Be within USAB feel that way about her. And it goes beyond Geno. And their opinions are the only ones that matter. Team USA is not a meritocracy, it is not an "all star" team, or some other entity that one can "deserve" to be on through talent and skill alone. It is an assembled team that has one goal: win a Gold Medal. Will they play favorites? Undoubtedly. The coach and committee are going to choose the players they feel gives them the best chance at winning, while also being people they want to be around. Since there is no such thing as "deserving" a spot on a subjectively assembled team the only way their choices are wrong is if they fail their goal.
Team USA didn't just not fail, but succeeded to a historic degree. Thus it seams ridiculous to complain about what the make up of the team was. |
If any coach in the world other than Geno was the coach, she would have been on the team. And if Geno wanted her on the team, she would have been on the team. |
You're ignoring the fact that she WAS on the team in 2012. With Geno as her coach. And much closer to the 2008 game that supposedly made everyone hate her. Rumors started then that she was benched a couple of times for friction with the coach. And I personally witnessed a "discussion" between the two of them in London where Parker did not seem very respectful. I thought right then that no way would she ever adopt that sort of body posture with Pat Summitt.
So yeah, maybe he DID push for her to be excluded. In fact, I'd bet he at least wasn't opposed to it. Like it or not, he's the boss and she's the employee. If she annoyed him enough to make him want to take someone else that's his right. You earn your way on the team not just by being the best but also by being someone that the coach wants to work with. For whatever reason, he decided that Charles to start, Elena off the bench and Stewie/Catch for situational subs was the combination that he wanted. Guess what, it worked. And, that's the bottom line.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18131 Location: Queens
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Posted: 08/27/16 5:39 pm ::: |
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All right, y'all. This thread has gotten rather circular.
Y'all have 24 hours to get it aaaaaaaalllllll out of your system (and I do mean ALL), and then this thread will be locked.
_________________ "We all have a platform. We all have a voice & they all hold weight. Silence is a luxury."
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zvyn3
Joined: 20 Jul 2013 Posts: 418 Location: away from here
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Posted: 08/27/16 9:22 pm ::: |
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Nerd2 wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
justintyme wrote: |
zvyn3 wrote: |
Are the majority of WBB fans total assholes, or is it just the ones on here? |
Someone stating that they had actual first hand confirmation that Parker was left off the team because of her attitude is not someone being an "asshole".
We can debate all day whether or not that belief about her is fair or not, but ultimately it doesn't matter. At all. For whatever reason the Powers That Be within USAB feel that way about her. And it goes beyond Geno. And their opinions are the only ones that matter. Team USA is not a meritocracy, it is not an "all star" team, or some other entity that one can "deserve" to be on through talent and skill alone. It is an assembled team that has one goal: win a Gold Medal. Will they play favorites? Undoubtedly. The coach and committee are going to choose the players they feel gives them the best chance at winning, while also being people they want to be around. Since there is no such thing as "deserving" a spot on a subjectively assembled team the only way their choices are wrong is if they fail their goal.
Team USA didn't just not fail, but succeeded to a historic degree. Thus it seams ridiculous to complain about what the make up of the team was. |
If any coach in the world other than Geno was the coach, she would have been on the team. And if Geno wanted her on the team, she would have been on the team. |
You're ignoring the fact that she WAS on the team in 2012. With Geno as her coach. And much closer to the 2008 game that supposedly made everyone hate her. Rumors started then that she was benched a couple of times for friction with the coach. And I personally witnessed a "discussion" between the two of them in London where Parker did not seem very respectful. I thought right then that no way would she ever adopt that sort of body posture with Pat Summitt.
So yeah, maybe he DID push for her to be excluded. In fact, I'd bet he at least wasn't opposed to it. Like it or not, he's the boss and she's the employee. If she annoyed him enough to make him want to take someone else that's his right. You earn your way on the team not just by being the best but also by being someone that the coach wants to work with. For whatever reason, he decided that Charles to start, Elena off the bench and Stewie/Catch for situational subs was the combination that he wanted. Guess what, it worked. And, that's the bottom line. |
Yeah, she was on the team in 2012 and Geno wouldn't take her back because he couldn't handle her outshining his UConn players in the gold medal game. Just because the combination worked doesn't mean they were better without her. They won the gold medal game with her in 2012 by 36 points. Only won by 31 this year. I'm not the least bit impressed.
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