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norwester



Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Posts: 6367
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PostPosted: 08/09/16 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A bizarre scene unfolded in men's gymnastics as Ukraine lost on purpose by not even trying
Question



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 08/09/16 4:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

USA collects team Gold



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Youth Coach



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: 08/09/16 5:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whoo Hoo! Golden Girls again!
toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 08/09/16 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NBC is just terrible with its Facebook page. They first mention the Live stream for the gymnastics, then post the results, then tell people to tune into their primetime coverage for the women's gymnastics final. Rolling Eyes



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Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 08/09/16 10:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

norwester wrote:
A bizarre scene unfolded in men's gymnastics as Ukraine lost on purpose by not even trying
Question



Saw that last night. That was bizarre!!!!

Apparently they are saying it was because of injury/illness.

Feel bad for the Swiss team that came in 9th.


mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 08/09/16 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Damn man, Aly had the unfortunate luck of being at her best while competing against someone who might be the best gymnast of all time. She's been killing it too.

Gold & Silver for all around next. Wink



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Gymnastics 101, Baby! Fly high and stick the landing!


Rolling Eyes

I wish Tim Tim Daggett would find a new phrase. I'm sure getting tired of hearing this one.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 08/10/16 11:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Did anyone ever figure out what Ukraine was doing the other night participating but refusing to compete?


Youth Coach



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: 08/11/16 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Since I know the results, I can't wait to watch the women's all-around tonight!
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 08/11/16 11:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The margin of victory for the winner was greater than the total of all MOVs in the all round from 1980-2012 combined according to NBC.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 08/12/16 6:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:


This is USA alternate Ragan Smith who USA Gymnastics lists as being 4'6". She just turned 16 on the 8th.

I wonder if gymnasts do the opposite of basketball players - take inches off their real height to get their listed height to put more fear in the opposition.

Female Gymnasts Have Always Been Short. For 30 Years, Theyve Been Getting Shorter. Why?


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 08/12/16 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Didn't trampoline used to be part of the normal gymnastics competition, at least for men? When was it split out on a separate day, with a separate pool of competitors, as an entirely separate event for men and women?

It's a great event. Women's qualifying is on right now. I think the finals are tonight.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8151
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 08/12/16 4:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
The margin of victory for the winner was greater than the total of all MOVs in the all round from 1980-2012 combined according to NBC.


That may technically be true, but the current floating scoring system was changed in 2008 specifically to create much greater separation in the scores. Before 2008 gymnastics was scored on the fixed 10 point system, under which it was quite common for the top three to five or so competitors in each event to be within 1/10 of a point of each other and for the total scores to be similarly close.

Biles seems to be the best package ever in terms of raw athletic power and high flight plus coordinated balance. I prefer watching Raisman because I find her more aesthetic and artistic.

Why are the Chinese still allowed to use nine year olds?
bballgrl



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: 08/12/16 5:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jmpenn90 wrote:
Shades wrote:
If you would have dug a little deeper you would have found this.



http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-oly-rio-2016-gymnastics-notebook-laurie-hernandez-1470430985-htmlstory.html#


So who's word are you going to believe, the gymnast herself and her coach, or somebody looking for an excuse to make a controversial decision?

I'm glad Marta is retiring. Hopefully in the future it'll mean whoever earns the right to compete gets to compete.

I did see that. The coach says at this time Laurie is fine. She didn't say anything about in the past which is what Marta seems to imply. Your post before blasted Arc for not having any info from Marta about the injury so I found an article that actually had quotes from Marta about the injury and now you say she is lying. Maybe she is but don't act like Art was just making it up with nothing to back it up.


If anyone noticed the date on Laurie's post it was August 5th, well before they announced who was going to be in the all around. I read another article which came out after there were a lot of comments about why Lauri was not going to be in all around. At that time Marta said that Lauri had pulled adomial(sp) muscles and wasn't able to practice the bars consistently. Mind you Lauri competed on floor, beam and vault during team time. Marta wanted Aly to have a chance to win an all around medal since she had missed out 4 years ago. It was all staged to get Aly in there. Marta held Lauri out of bars so she wouldn't qualify to compete in All arounds. If she had pulled muscles she would not have been able to do floor,beam and vault cause all those skills require the use of stomach muscles!! It was a set up plain and simple.


GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14102



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PostPosted: 08/12/16 10:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Simone Biles and Aly Raisman were the US's top 2 all around gymnasts in 2016 before going to Rio, yes Laurie Hernandez was second on both days at Olympic Trials, but Aly beat her in all but one all around competition before the Olympic Trials, and that one time it was a tie for 2nd on Day 1 of P&G Championships. There is no reason Laurie should have been given the all-around spot ahead of Aly based on the 2016 season, not just the 2 days of Olympic Trials. And there there is also how each performed in training camps. During the podium training in Rio Laurie didn't have her usual pop on the floor and beam, I don't know if it was her coming back from the injury, jet lag, or maybe just a bad day, but that did stand out, and it could also be something that stood out to Marta Karolyi. To me Simone and Aly were always going to do the all-around, no questions about it because Aly was the 2nd best all-around gymnast, so after those 2 you have Madison Kocian who was only brought to Rio to do uneven bars, so that is 3 spots, the last spot in the bars line up was between Gabby Douglas and Laurie Hernandez, and Gabby is the better bars worker so the spot naturally went to her. If say they brought a beam or floor specialist instead of a bars specialist I believe Laurie would have gone all-around and Gabby would have done 3 events.


GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14102



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PostPosted: 08/12/16 10:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:

I'm glad Marta is retiring. Hopefully in the future it'll mean whoever earns the right to compete gets to compete.


Simone Biles and Aly Raisman have been the 2 best all around gymnasts in 2016, Gabby Douglas and Madison Kocian are the 2 best uneven bars gymnasts on the team, so who in the uneven bars lineup didn't earn their spot in the line up. Aly earn her all-around spot by being the 2nd best all around gymnast for almost all of 2016 (going into Rio), Gabby earned her all-around spot because she is better on uneven bars than Laurie Hernandez and better on the other 3 events than Madison Kocian, and Simone earned her spot by being the best all-around gymnast in the world.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8151
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 08/12/16 11:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bla and Mrta Krolyi literally built American gymnastics from the dust when they emigrated from Romania in 1981 after coaching the powerful Romanian team and the incomparable Nadia ("Perfect 10") Comăneci -- achieving quick success with Olympic all-around champion Mary Lou Retton in 1984, and then Shannon Miller in 1992 and the Magnificent Seven in 1996.

When Bla retired in 2001 as national team coordinator, Mrta took over the position and has been even more successful, building the USA team into unchallenged world dominance since 2011.

After consultation with her two assistants, Mrta ultimately decides who will be on the team and who does what events. It would be difficult to criticize her career judgments.

Here is a very interesting documentary on "The Ranch" -- the Krolyi gymnastic Mecca in the Texas forest, focusing on the selection process for the 2016 Olympics:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/ranch-home-american-sports-dynasty
GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14102



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PostPosted: 08/13/16 1:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
The margin of victory for the winner was greater than the total of all MOVs in the all round from 1980-2012 combined according to NBC.


That may technically be true, but the current floating scoring system was changed in 2008 specifically to create much greater separation in the scores. Before 2008 gymnastics was scored on the fixed 10 point system, under which it was quite common for the top three to five or so competitors in each event to be within 1/10 of a point of each other and for the total scores to be similarly close.

Biles seems to be the best package ever in terms of raw athletic power and high flight plus coordinated balance. I prefer watching Raisman because I find her more aesthetic and artistic.

Why are the Chinese still allowed to use nine year olds?


The scoring system was changed in 2006 after some controversies in 2004 and 2005 when fans didn't understand some of the scoring (not the only reason, but one of the reasons that lead to the change), the 2005 World Championships was the major competition to use the old scoring system.

And the Chinese has never been accused of using 9 year old gymnasts.


GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14102



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PostPosted: 08/13/16 1:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Did anyone ever figure out what Ukraine was doing the other night participating but refusing to compete?


Maksym Semiankiv who was scheduled to go on floor, still rings, parallel bars and high bar injured his hand in warm ups, and while a gymnast could have substituted because the session had not started yet Ukraine choose not to make the substitution, possible because the other 2 gymnasts had not warmed up on those events and it could be potentially dangerous to put up an unprepared athlete up on an event.


GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: 08/13/16 2:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Didn't trampoline used to be part of the normal gymnastics competition, at least for men? When was it split out on a separate day, with a separate pool of competitors, as an entirely separate event for men and women?

It's a great event. Women's qualifying is on right now. I think the finals are tonight.


Trampoline became an Olympic sport in 2000, since then they have had a men' and women's competition. It's too bad they just do the one, I've watch some other trampoline events and I think they are pretty cool to watch.

I don't believe trampoline was ever a part of the artistic gymnastics rotations or the two sports were performed on the same day.


FollowtheCardinalRule



Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Posts: 5153
Location: Denver


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PostPosted: 08/14/16 2:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Max Whitlock! Very Happy


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8151
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 08/14/16 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A gymnast heart-throb of my middle age, during the golden era of Soviet domination of the sport -- Nellie Kim -- just gave out the medals to the individual vault champions.

Nellie was the first gymnast to score a perfect 10 on the vault and floor exercise, and her battles with Nadia Comăneci in 1976 and 1980 were artistically elegant and epic.
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 08/14/16 11:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow. This is Oksana Chusovitina's 7th Olympics. 28 years.

But a comment tonight put that in perspective.

NBC's analyst Nastia Liukin said "She was in the Olympics with my father before I was born."

So the career of a former Olympic all round champion who wasn't yet born when Chusovitina started competing in the Olympics has come and gone and she's moved on to announcing while Chusovitina is still competing in the Olympics and qualified for the individual competition in the vault.

That's pretty remarkable.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8151
Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 08/14/16 11:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Wow. This is Oksana Chusovitina's 7th Olympics. 28 years.

But a comment tonight put that in perspective.

NBC's analyst Nastia Liukin said "She was in the Olympics with my father before I was born."

So the career of a former Olympic all round champion who wasn't yet born when Chusovitina started competing in the Olympics has come and gone and she's moved on to announcing while Chusovitina is still competing in the Olympics and qualified for the individual competition in the vault.

That's pretty remarkable.


Chusovitina's longevity is remarkable and she looks great for 41, but Nastia Liukin is incorrect if she said her father was in the Olympics with Chusovitina. Valeri Liukin competed only in the 1988 Olympics. Chusovitina'a first Olympics was in 1992, 24 years ago. Perhaps Nastia meant that her father's career overlapped with the beginning of Chusovitina's prior to her birth in 1989.

This nit doesn't affect the point made, but the claim about a common Olympics didn't seem right to me, so I decided to look it up.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9543



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PostPosted: 08/15/16 12:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
Shades wrote:

I'm glad Marta is retiring. Hopefully in the future it'll mean whoever earns the right to compete gets to compete.


Simone Biles and Aly Raisman have been the 2 best all around gymnasts in 2016, Gabby Douglas and Madison Kocian are the 2 best uneven bars gymnasts on the team, so who in the uneven bars lineup didn't earn their spot in the line up. Aly earn her all-around spot by being the 2nd best all around gymnast for almost all of 2016 (going into Rio), Gabby earned her all-around spot because she is better on uneven bars than Laurie Hernandez and better on the other 3 events than Madison Kocian, and Simone earned her spot by being the best all-around gymnast in the world.


He's referring to the fact that they have an Olympic Trials for the gymnasts, but then do not select based on the results of that event. If they want the coach to have the final decision in selecting the participants, they should just cancel the Olympic Trials. To continue to get the money that event raises, it can be changed it to an exhibition.


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