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basketballologist



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PostPosted: 08/09/16 9:37 pm    ::: Hot Seat Order Reply Reply with quote

Ranking all 12 WNBA coaches hott seat

1. Sandy Brondello
2. Fred Williams
3. Pokey Chatman
4. Jenny Boucek
5. Curt Miller
6. Mike Thibault
7. Michael Cooper
8. Bill Laimbeer
9. Cheryl Reeve
10. Brian Agler
11 and 12. Stephanie White and Dan Hughes (final seasons)


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/09/16 9:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd say there's only three on the hot seat: Brondello, Williams & Chatman. The other 7 seem secure. Boucek & Miller because of their young players. Thibault for always managing to pull something out of nothing. Cooper for turning Elizabeth Williams into a dominant center & Clarendon into a quality starting PG. Laimbeer, Reeve & Agler need no explanation.



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Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 6:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I'd say there's only three on the hot seat: Brondello, Williams & Chatman. The other 7 seem secure. Boucek & Miller because of their young players. Thibault for always managing to pull something out of nothing. Cooper for turning Elizabeth Williams into a dominant center & Clarendon into a quality starting PG. Laimbeer, Reeve & Agler need no explanation.


I can SEE Atlanta getting tired of Cooper as hes been woefully inconsistent this year and had a bad year the previous year...I also would think that it would be mind numbingly stupid if they did so.

Never was a fan of Brondello, when everyone was jumping on the train 2 years ago I was the one saying she went over like a lead balloon in San Antonio...seeing some of that here...not all her fault but she could do a better job with the drama llammas there...the curious thing will be how does PHX work the team next year that will determine Brondello's fate more than anything.

Pokey...problem is I cant find anyone Better to replace her with...lets see how they finish down the stretch and what seed they eventually get.

Jenny Boo...im not 100% thrilled with her coaching but she doesn't have much to work with beyond Bird Stewart and Lloyd...she was brought in to build around the latter two and you see some of that coming together...had some great comebacks this year and the Key is regaining some of the magic...I know Seattle cut bait with Dunn right on the cusp of the team turning the corner...don't see it this time...she stays tho I can see the arguments against her

Miller...I do think a lot of this disaster was Miller coming on too strong with the new system and forcing it into Donovan's power built roster...trading malcontent Bone has helped the team improve and they've had some good wins and have made teams earn it to the whistle in others...stays.

Thibault...he's got that tinkerman's moneyball roster that he had in CT kinda dangerous in his hands but really lacking that punch to get over the top...DC as a franchise is going nowhere fast the owners WANT attendance to plummet so they can justify a woefully small new facility...he has Meesman and some good rebounders and defenders...Latta's showing age and despite a fast start they're again showing the rudderlessness of losing Lawson that they did last year that almost cost them the playoffs...We know he can coach because otherwise this team would be rock bottom...that's how bad talent wise the roster is...I can see DC cutting bait...I can also see DC asking Mike to step aside as GM and him saying no and jumping to another job (Indiana could be lethal with Kusperoff there and the past penchant for reclamation projects...they know what T brings could be the good shepherd for the post catchings era) or I could see them staying as again DC doesn't really seem to care what happens at this point.

the bottom three on this poll are above reproach.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 9:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The list seems about right to me, but the key question was raised: Who out there would be an upgrade?

The best coaches prefer college gigs because of the money, security and prestige, so it's not like there's a long list of talented coaches clamoring for a WNBA job.

So the next question -- who are the top candidates for the next available WNBA jobs?



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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 9:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To have Hughes and White at 11 & 12 just because they are leaving doesn't make sense. I'm gonna rate them as if they weren't already leaving.

1. Hughes - A lot of this is because of his declining GM skills. Perkins for Gwathmey trade was the straw that broke the camel's back. I have a feeling he was fired as GM, so he retired himself as coach. I think the only thing that keeps this club from going under is the extra million a year from ESPN.

2. Williams - Nice decision to keep Hamblin over Zahui. If he couldn't spot talent in Zahui, I have to wonder about some of his other decisions. Most undisciplined club in the league. The players probably love that he's a players' coach, but they gotta love winning more. At this point they're probably wanting some kind of change.

3. Miller - It wasn't that long ago his seat was scorching red hot. He was sitting at #1. Bone forced his hand at trading her, and now the team is doing better. But I don't think he's quite out of the woods. If they don't make the playoffs, and they don't get that lottery pick reward at the end of the season, we'll see how well that sits with the fans. If you're looking for excuses, I'm sure he'll have plenty of those ready.

4. Chatman - CHI is probably the most under performing of the remaining clubs. I really don't think she's going anywhere because of her contract, and who can they get that's bettter.... a problem with a lot of these clubs. She's good with her guards, now if she can only get her post situation shored up, maybe CHI can get somewhere. They do seem to lack on court leadership, so that's probably the biggest thing. Pondexter should be the leader. Trouble is she's not that smart.

5. Cooper - I think people give too much credit to Cooper for how Williams is playing. That's kinda like giving credit to Reeve for how well Dantas did her first year. Reeve was basically forced to start Dantas because other players were hurt, and it worked out well (even though Dantas couldn't understand a word Reeve was saying). It's just about giving a player a real chance to prove their worth. I'm sorry Liberty fans, this applies to Zahui too. How Zahui is playing has always been in there. It's not because of some wizardry from Laimbeer. Getting back to Cooper, I'm still a little skeptical that he can make something out of this team. He's lucky McCoughtry is investing in the area and doesn't seem to want to leave ATL. If that happens, ATL might as well put a fork in it.

6. Thibault - Quite honestly, he probably deserves to be lower. People always cry about his talent level, but forget he's responsible for his own talent level. He really hasn't made any great deals or done any bargain shopping like the Libs. His talent level isn't really that bad that they should be under performing like they are this season. Stop giving Thibault a "Get out of being a bad coach for free" card.

7. Boucek - Bottom line for me is that the team is doing better than I expected, so I gotta think her seat is on the cool side. If Boucek can make Clark look like a star, why can't Thibault do the same for his players?

8. Brondello - Oh come now. This coach just won a Championship and Coach of the Year in 2014 and all I ever heard about it was because of Brondello's new emphasis on defense in PHX. Are you ready to revoke that COY, just like the Sparks did with Ross? I think that would be a little hasty. Let's see how the rest of the year pans out.

9. White - Traditional slow start to the season for IND. A lot of distractions built into this season. If those weren't there, I think IND would be doing better. I believe IND will buckle down for the playoffs (like they almost always do).

10. Alger - Okay, great season so far but it's a little early to be ranking as coldest seat. The Sparks (and Parker) haven't won a championship yet.

11. Laimbeer - Results talk, and he seems to have a good working relationship with Thomas.

12. Reeve - Three Championships in six years. What more needs to be said? Four in seven?



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Last edited by Shades on 08/10/16 9:43 am; edited 1 time in total
toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 08/10/16 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
The list seems about right to me, but the key question was raised: Who out there would be an upgrade?

The best coaches prefer college gigs because of the money, security and prestige, so it's not like there's a long list of talented coaches clamoring for a WNBA job.

So the next question -- who are the top candidates for the next available WNBA jobs?


Katie Smith
Carol Ross
Karleen Thompson
Vickie Johnson
Jim Peterson
Taj McWilliams-Franklin



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dtsnms



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:


3. Miller - It wasn't that long ago his seat was scorching red hot. He was sitting at #1. Bone forced his hand at trading her, and now the team is doing better. But I don't think he's quite out of the woods. If they don't make the playoffs, and they don't get that lottery pick reward at the end of the season, we'll see how well that sits with the fans. If you're looking for excuses, I'm sure he'll have plenty of those ready.


Although you've never believed me when I've been saying it, I don't believe Miller has been on the hot seat. Even Donovan got a couple years.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 2:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I also think Miller is going to get a long leash. CT has gotten a lot of players in the last year (Banham, Tuck, Jones, Williams) whose style of play fits his coaching. That's a signal that he's pretty secure. Plus they've played much better since the Bone trade, a signal that they are stabilizing after a miserable start.

Mind you, I haven't been sold on Miller to this point, but I don't think they're getting all these players who fit his philosophy just to get rid of him after a season.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 2:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I also think Miller is going to get a long leash. CT has gotten a lot of players in the last year (Banham, Tuck, Jones, Williams) whose style of play fits his coaching. That's a signal that he's pretty secure. Plus they've played much better since the Bone trade, a signal that they are stabilizing after a miserable start.

Mind you, I haven't been sold on Miller to this point, but I don't think they're getting all these players who fit his philosophy just to get rid of him after a season.


Who's philosophy did Donovan's acquisitions fill, Thibault's?

Some of the Sun's best players, by the way.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Katie Smith: Legit candidate but she's never been a head coach. It's a lot different when you're in charge. Worth a gamble, I'd guess, but hardly a sure thing.

Carol Ross: Another legit candidate. I'd say she's the most likely upgrade, but I wonder if she wants a head job.

Karleen Thompson: Hard for me to be convinced she's going to be better than the 12 who are already there. Her record as a head coach is 30-38, and she drafted Ashley(?) Shields out of a JC No. 8 overall as GM.

Vickie Johnson: Legit candidate, but like Katie Smith, no head coaching experience. Presumably she'll take over for Hughest, but maybe they want to clean house and start over.

Jim Petersen: I've heard he's pretty locked in in Minnesota but maybe he wants to be a head coach. Like most on this list, has no head coaching experience.

Taj McWilliams-Franklin: She was 4-24 in Division II last year. (Just because a player is a well-loved veteran does not necessarily mean she will be a good coach.)



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Karleen Thompson is 41-41. You seem to have left out her interim run for the Sparks in 2004. That's essentially the same record Jenny Boucek had when she took over the Storm.



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sigur3



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 5:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
Shades wrote:


3. Miller - It wasn't that long ago his seat was scorching red hot. He was sitting at #1. Bone forced his hand at trading her, and now the team is doing better. But I don't think he's quite out of the woods. If they don't make the playoffs, and they don't get that lottery pick reward at the end of the season, we'll see how well that sits with the fans. If you're looking for excuses, I'm sure he'll have plenty of those ready.


Although you've never believed me when I've been saying it, I don't believe Miller has been on the hot seat. Even Donovan got a couple years.


Right. Why would a coach with a completely new system who inherited a poorly balanced, very young roster be fired after his first season? Did people really watch the Sun in May-June and think that was a coaching issue?


Shades



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
Shades wrote:


3. Miller - It wasn't that long ago his seat was scorching red hot. He was sitting at #1. Bone forced his hand at trading her, and now the team is doing better. But I don't think he's quite out of the woods. If they don't make the playoffs, and they don't get that lottery pick reward at the end of the season, we'll see how well that sits with the fans. If you're looking for excuses, I'm sure he'll have plenty of those ready.


Although you've never believed me when I've been saying it, I don't believe Miller has been on the hot seat.


This is just an order of hotness, and I like my order. Would you like to share your order with complete explanations like I have? Who would you have as #3?

dtsnms wrote:
Even Donovan got a couple years.


Care to share why you phrased it that way? Even Donovan, a WNBA Championship coach, got a couple of years? What a shocker. What has Miller done?



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 7:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm going to move Curt down because his team is young, but they play hella hard...
1. Fred Williams
2. Sandy Brondello
3. Pokey Chatman
4. Jenny Boucek
5. Michael Cooper
6. Mike Thibault
7. Curt Miller
8. Bill Laimbeer
9. Cheryl Reeve
10. Brian Agler
11 and 12. Stephanie White and Dan Hughes (final seasons)


Libra_Girl



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PostPosted: 08/10/16 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sandy Brondelle
Just based on Phx having more talent then the another coaches on the hot seat.


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PostPosted: 08/11/16 12:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:

6. Thibault - Quite honestly, he probably deserves to be lower. People always cry about his talent level, but forget he's responsible for his own talent level. He really hasn't made any great deals or done any bargain shopping like the Libs. His talent level isn't really that bad that they should be under performing like they are this season. Stop giving Thibault a "Get out of being a bad coach for free" card.


Thibault took a 5-29 team, that got the 4th pick in the lottery, and made it a .500 team. Once you get to .500 it is hard to improve your talent. Top free agents aren't clamoring to get on .500 teams and you are out of the lottery. Thibault is too good of a coach and GM to remain in the lottery for all the years that Phoenix and Minnesota did to grab top talent.


dtsnms



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PostPosted: 08/11/16 11:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
dtsnms wrote:
Shades wrote:


3. Miller - It wasn't that long ago his seat was scorching red hot. He was sitting at #1. Bone forced his hand at trading her, and now the team is doing better. But I don't think he's quite out of the woods. If they don't make the playoffs, and they don't get that lottery pick reward at the end of the season, we'll see how well that sits with the fans. If you're looking for excuses, I'm sure he'll have plenty of those ready.


Although you've never believed me when I've been saying it, I don't believe Miller has been on the hot seat.


This is just an order of hotness, and I like my order. Would you like to share your order with complete explanations like I have? Who would you have as #3?

dtsnms wrote:
Even Donovan got a couple years.


Care to share why you phrased it that way? Even Donovan, a WNBA Championship coach, got a couple of years? What a shocker. What has Miller done?


Nope, don't feel like arguing. I'll just leave it as is.


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PostPosted: 08/11/16 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Shades wrote:

6. Thibault - Quite honestly, he probably deserves to be lower. People always cry about his talent level, but forget he's responsible for his own talent level. He really hasn't made any great deals or done any bargain shopping like the Libs. His talent level isn't really that bad that they should be under performing like they are this season. Stop giving Thibault a "Get out of being a bad coach for free" card.


Thibault took a 5-29 team, that got the 4th pick in the lottery, and made it a .500 team. Once you get to .500 it is hard to improve your talent. Top free agents aren't clamoring to get on .500 teams and you are out of the lottery. Thibault is too good of a coach and GM to remain in the lottery for all the years that Phoenix and Minnesota did to grab top talent.

So clearly Washington need to fire him in order to suck enough to get better. Wink



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PostPosted: 08/11/16 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

At the risk of getting slightly off-topic...how about General Managers who are (or should be) on the "Hot Seat"?

Would the Sun's Chris Sienko be among them?



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PostPosted: 08/11/16 6:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
At the risk of getting slightly off-topic...how about General Managers who are (or should be) on the "Hot Seat"?

Would the Sun's Chris Sienko be among them?


That's an interesting question given that some coaches serve double duty, and it's hard to strictly evaluate a GM's performance when he/she is also coaching those players. Hughes would have easily been at the top of that list had he not already been replaced/been retiring, but yeah, Sienko hasn't been very impressive. He may have saved himself by unloading Bone, however.

I've always thought Pokey was a better GM than coach, but her roster decisions have put the franchise in a significantly worse position than it was in 2 seasons ago.


StevenHW



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PostPosted: 08/12/16 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
At the risk of getting slightly off-topic...how about General Managers who are (or should be) on the "Hot Seat"?

Would the Sun's Chris Sienko be among them?


I guess that was too easy...Sienko will be stepping down at the end of the season.

http://www.hoopfeed.com/content/2016/08/12/connecticut-sun-exec-chris-sienko-to-resign-effective-end-of-september/

http://sun.wnba.com/news/sienko-step-away-sun/



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