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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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 Posted: 07/13/16 11:33 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
If I remember the rules correctly, Barbee can only re-enter the draft if she does not play professionally between now and next season. If Barbee does play overseas she becomes a reserved player for NY, meaning she could only negotiate with NY unless NY waives her, or trades her rights. My guess would be if healthy she will play somewhere in the next year and end up in the Liberty training camp.
It would also be fun to see Cakir in camp, though when I've mentioned her in the past the folks who follow the overseas game basically say don't get your hopes up, both in regard to her coming over, or being a WNBA level player, but she is young, so who knows? |
You're right about the rules, but who knows how quickly people heal and how they want to rehab. It wouldn't surprise me if Barbee did or didn't play overseas. However, even if she follows all the rules, I don't know if Barbee has much to gain from re-entering the draft. It's competitive to make any WNBA team, but at least you know there's a camp to attend if you stay with NY. It's a guaranteed foot in the door.
Both of these players are longshots. Nonetheless, there are longshots you like better than others. Cakir is very thin. The listings for her are 5-11 or 6-0, 132 to 136 lbs. Some people are wiry strong, but I don't see much muscle definition on her. So, that's a challenge right there before you get to skill level. On the positive side, Cakir plays in the Turkish League which is pretty tough. Because Fenerbahce is a top team, they're always in EuroLeague matching up against the best competition outside of the WNBA. Just in practice against her own teammates, Cakir has faced the likes of Charles, McCoughtry, Pondexter, Taurasi, Taylor, Lavender, Quigley, Zellous, and Coleman. She won't be surprised by the level of competition... which is not to say she won't struggle anyway.
Barbee looks to me like she's a good enough athlete for the W if she's healthy. Her skills appear decent, but she doesn't excel at anything. I give Barbee a better shot than Cakir because I think she has the makings of a good defender. With Laimbeer, that's the first requirement. Cakir's advantage is that she's mainly a point guard. Barbee is combo-ish, but better suited for SG.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 07/14/16 12:12 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
Also the last couple of seasons NY has had a bigger roster turnover than any of us have predicted.
This season NY added four (actually 5) new players Zellous, Zahui B., Schimmel and Bulgak, (oh and Harding) and got an international to show up after only playing one game last season due to injury so while I would be pretty happy to see everyone back I wouldn't count on it.
The season before NY added 6 new players in Prince, Wright, Swords, Allen, Boyd, and Stokes.
2017
Prince/Boyd
Rodgers/Wright/Schimmel
Allen/Zellous
Charles/Zahui B./Bulgak
Stokes/Swords
I'd be very happy if this was next years squad, but I will also be very shocked if this is next years squad. |
The reminders you've shared here are why I am way past skeptical when I read detailed projections in July 2016 for the Liberty roster in May 2017. Six new players in 2015, five new players in 2016, but no new players in 2017? Not very likely. |
At some point it'd be wise to to reach stability, which leads to continuity, which is more likely to be conducive to a championship. In other words, once you find a combination of players you're happy with, stick with them, as long as you can afford them. Not happy with this bunch? I'm not expecting a huge turnover.
But it is interesting that we got a hint about Barbee. To me, that could mean that the Libs aren't married to the current guard situation. Hint that Schimmel's gonna be shopped right now? Might Wright be retiring for real this time? So many questions. Who's got the answers?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/14/16 7:00 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| At some point it'd be wise to to reach stability, which leads to continuity, which is more likely to be conducive to a championship. In other words, once you find a combination of players you're happy with, stick with them, as long as you can afford them. Not happy with this bunch? I'm not expecting a huge turnover. |
The 19-1 Sparks have six new players from last year
The 2015 champion Lynx had five new players from the year before
The 2014 champion Mercury had five new players from the year before
Roster turnover is common and expected, even for championship teams.
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pilight
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| Posted: 07/14/16 8:36 am ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| For those of you keeping track: the Liberty did not wear the #BlackLivesMatter/#Dallas5 shirts today... but neither did they wear the standard-issue Liberty warm-up shirts. They wore plain black Adidas, no logo except that Adidas logo. |
Apparently Adidas was unhappy with the shirts. Not because of the message but because their deal with the league specifies the placement of the Adidas logo on the warmups and the hashtag shirts didn't have it.
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root_thing
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5thmantheme
Joined: 11 Apr 2016
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| Posted: 07/14/16 2:13 pm ::: |
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Charles is flat out killing it this year.
Lyttle and EWill are very good defensively, and put up a good fight.
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pilight
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Shades
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| Posted: 07/19/16 7:03 pm ::: |
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| Quote: |
| Shoni Schimmel’s career in the Women’s National Association may be coming to an end |
| Quote: |
| She was voted to the NBA All-Star team in her first season, going on to earn Most Valuable Player honors |
He may not be all that coherent.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 07/20/16 12:49 am ::: |
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| We actually got to see Shoni play a little bit these last three games. Her defense looks a lot better to me. Not that I'm saying it's good, but she now appears to be in the normal range of slow as opposed to looking like she doesn't belong in the league at all. It's forward progress if nothing else.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/20/16 8:02 am ::: |
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| We have to remember that if Wright returns next season, we're very guard heavy. Boyd, Wright, Prince, Rodgers, Zellous, Shimmel. There's potential for a trade there. It'll be interesting to see if Shimmel's with the Liberty next season. Her career won't be over as a team like Seattle would grab her immediately just to boost ticket sales.
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bbdawg1959
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| Posted: 07/20/16 3:47 pm ::: |
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I think it more-than-a-little ironic that the "Get to Know Shoni Schimmel" video on the NY Liberty website is powered by an ad for Dunkin' Donuts.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 07/20/16 4:42 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
Also the last couple of seasons NY has had a bigger roster turnover than any of us have predicted.
This season NY added four (actually 5) new players Zellous, Zahui B., Schimmel and Bulgak, (oh and Harding) and got an international to show up after only playing one game last season due to injury so while I would be pretty happy to see everyone back I wouldn't count on it.
The season before NY added 6 new players in Prince, Wright, Swords, Allen, Boyd, and Stokes.
2017
Prince/Boyd
Rodgers/Wright/Schimmel
Allen/Zellous
Charles/Zahui B./Bulgak
Stokes/Swords
I'd be very happy if this was next years squad, but I will also be very shocked if this is next years squad. |
I'd still like Laimbeer to go after Danielle Robinson. As I mention in the Liberty game thread, they'd done just fine without Prince for all of this season and most of last season. She's disposable at this point. And even trade - Prince for D. Robinson.
PG: Robinson/Boyd
SG: Rodgers/Wright/Shimmel
SF: Allen/Zellous
PF: Charles/Zahui B.
C: Swords/Stokes
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Shades
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toad455
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Queenie
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| Posted: 07/20/16 8:57 pm ::: |
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| bbdawg1959 wrote: |
I think it more-than-a-little ironic that the "Get to Know Shoni Schimmel" video on the NY Liberty website is powered by an ad for Dunkin' Donuts. |
Dunkin' Donuts sponsors the series of segments, not just individual ones.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 07/20/16 9:24 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
Also the last couple of seasons NY has had a bigger roster turnover than any of us have predicted.
This season NY added four (actually 5) new players Zellous, Zahui B., Schimmel and Bulgak, (oh and Harding) and got an international to show up after only playing one game last season due to injury so while I would be pretty happy to see everyone back I wouldn't count on it.
The season before NY added 6 new players in Prince, Wright, Swords, Allen, Boyd, and Stokes.
2017
Prince/Boyd
Rodgers/Wright/Schimmel
Allen/Zellous
Charles/Zahui B./Bulgak
Stokes/Swords
I'd be very happy if this was next years squad, but I will also be very shocked if this is next years squad. |
I'd still like Laimbeer to go after Danielle Robinson. As I mention in the Liberty game thread, they'd done just fine without Prince for all of this season and most of last season. She's disposable at this point. And even trade - Prince for D. Robinson.
PG: Robinson/Boyd
SG: Rodgers/Wright/Shimmel
SF: Allen/Zellous
PF: Charles/Zahui B.
C: Swords/Stokes |
I like this trade idea (In fact I proposed it somewhere on this board about a week ago under the title our hurt player for your hurt player) D-Rob would be that steady hand we need at the end of games, and with Rodgers, Zahui B, Allen, sometime Wright and Zellous, and maybe Schimmel and Bulgak if they ever get on the floor being able to shoot the 3 D-Rob's lack of a 3 point shot wouldn't hurt us too much. unfortunately someone pointed out, and it sounded possible to me, that Prince wanted to play in NY and play with Charles, and since she makes good money in Russia it doesn't seem out of the question that Prince might not want to show up to play for a rebuilding team in Texas, as opposed to a solid team in her home town.
I also feel a little guilty about wanting to trade a player who wants to play here. But can Prince do what T. Wright is doing this season and play some PG so her and Sugar can be on the floor together, and will that slow Boyd's development? She seemed pretty awesome today.
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Str8_Butta
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/20/16 10:25 pm ::: |
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| bbdawg1959 wrote: |
I think it more-than-a-little ironic that the "Get to Know Shoni Schimmel" video on the NY Liberty website is powered by an ad for Dunkin' Donuts. |
Everybody thinks they're a comedian....
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mavcarter
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| Posted: 07/20/16 11:05 pm ::: |
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I'm not even sure Prince would agree to suit up for San Antonio, for what it's worth.._________________
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| Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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root_thing
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| Posted: 07/21/16 1:29 am ::: |
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| The couple of times Ros Gold-Onwude mentioned Prince, she talked about "hot yoga and bicycle spins". I'm not sure Prince is actually practicing yet. I would also note that on July 14th of last year, Rebecca Allen posted a video of herself working out. It was only light drills -- dribbling and shooting -- but it looked like she was wearing no protection on her knee. So, I'm guessing she was medically sound. Nonetheless, Allen didn't play her first WNBL game until November 29th. This after missing her team's first seven games. So again, being cleared for practice is a long way from being ready to play pro basketball.
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Shades
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| Posted: 07/21/16 1:55 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| The couple of times Ros Gold-Onwude mentioned Prince, she talked about "hot yoga and bicycle spins". I'm not sure Prince is actually practicing yet. I would also note that on July 14th of last year, Rebecca Allen posted a video of herself working out. It was only light drills -- dribbling and shooting -- but it looked like she was wearing no protection on her knee. So, I'm guessing she was medically sound. Nonetheless, Allen didn't play her first WNBL game until November 29th. This after missing her team's first seven games. So again, being cleared for practice is a long way from being ready to play pro basketball. |
That means no way was it an ACL, as suggested. The only thing I could find was talk of cartilage damage, which isn't the same as ligaments.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 07/21/16 6:42 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| The couple of times Ros Gold-Onwude mentioned Prince, she talked about "hot yoga and bicycle spins". I'm not sure Prince is actually practicing yet. I would also note that on July 14th of last year, Rebecca Allen posted a video of herself working out. It was only light drills -- dribbling and shooting -- but it looked like she was wearing no protection on her knee. So, I'm guessing she was medically sound. Nonetheless, Allen didn't play her first WNBL game until November 29th. This after missing her team's first seven games. So again, being cleared for practice is a long way from being ready to play pro basketball. |
That means no way was it an ACL, as suggested. The only thing I could find was talk of cartilage damage, which isn't the same as ligaments. |
I never said Allen had an ACL injury. Situations don't have to be identical for there to be a commonality. I'm starting from the point where the player is deemed healthy and ready for basketball workouts. Regardless of the type of injury, being declared medically healthy is not a guarantee that you can quickly return to a physical level sufficient for pro basketball. And even when you're back playing, you may not be fully ready. After coming back from surgery last season, Carmelo Anthony complained about knee pain that would come and go. He was eventually forced to take a couple of games off even though he wasn't officially injured. Coming back from major surgery is never easy regardless of the type. There are always unforeseen issues and side effects. Now, maybe all this preliminary non-basketball work that Prince has done will expedite her return. Otherwise, a month and a half is not a lot of time to get yourself back into condition, retune your skills, recover your instincts, acclimate with your teammates, and also work out any side issues from your injury. Of course, you can always push yourself on to the court before you're ready, but that's exactly what the team shouldn't want to see happen.
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Shades
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| Posted: 07/21/16 6:52 pm ::: |
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| I didn't mean you specifically suggested it. I meant Reeve and others in this forum have said it was an ACL.
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root_thing
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Str8_Butta
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| Posted: 07/22/16 7:42 am ::: |
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| I've never seen or heard it called an ACL, I forgot what it was called but I'm almost sure ACL wasn't it.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 07/22/16 10:15 am ::: |
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| Str8_Butta wrote: |
| I've never seen or heard it called an ACL, I forgot what it was called but I'm almost sure ACL wasn't it. |
I'm pretty sure it was cartilage damage. However, that in itself is pretty vague because depending on the severity the of injury, there are four different types of procedures -- including microfracture surgery. I suspect Allen's injury was on the less severe side of the spectrum.
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