| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Who should Candace Parker replace on Team USA? |
| Seimone Augustus |
|
13% |
[ 12 ] |
| Sue Bird |
|
5% |
[ 5 ] |
| Tamika Catchings |
|
3% |
[ 3 ] |
| Tina Charles |
|
5% |
[ 5 ] |
| Elena Delle Donne |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Sylvia Fowles |
|
5% |
[ 5 ] |
| Brittney Griner |
|
1% |
[ 1 ] |
| Angel McCoughtry |
|
15% |
[ 14 ] |
| Maya Moore |
|
1% |
[ 1 ] |
| Breanna Stewart |
|
40% |
[ 37 ] |
| Diana Taurasi |
|
0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Lindsay Whalen |
|
1% |
[ 1 ] |
| None of the above |
|
7% |
[ 7 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 91 |
|
| Author |
Message |
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
 Posted: 04/28/16 4:45 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
So the difference between Parker in 2008 and Stewart in 2016 is that Parker played a whole "month" in the almighty WNBA and Stewart hasn't?
Wowee!
I don't think there was ever much doubt about Parker making the 2008 Olympic team even without her magnificent month.
Moreover, both Parker and Stewart had four-plus year college and USAB careers prior to their Olympic selections. I suggest that those careers definitively demonstrated that Stewart, at the time of college graduation, was the superior defender, three-point shooter and assist-passer. And those things may be true right now. |
Playing against college kids does not "definitively demonstrate" anything relative to a bunch of pros contending for the same spot.
Yes, a month of playing as the best player in the WNBA validated Parker's selection.
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66920
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 4:59 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| So the difference between Parker in 2008 and Stewart in 2016 is that Parker played a whole "month" in the almighty WNBA and Stewart hasn't? |
The bigger difference is who got left out. Compare 2008 to 2004 and you see a major roster shift. Six new players on the roster. Gone from 2004 were Swin Cash, Yo Griffith, Pee Wee Johnson, Ruth Riley, Dawn Staley, and Sheryl Swoopes. Staley retired in 2006. Griffith, Johnson, and Swoopes were on their last legs. Riley was the 12th man in 2004 who few thought should be there and no one expected back in 2008. Cash was a good player, but not exactly what Parker is today.
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 5:09 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
The selection committee has to pick from such an always abundantly talented pool of American women. Not downplaying that at all... I'm saying it's a tough problem.
I think, however, for the three to five players who it can be argued are, and reasonably so, 'the best player in the world'... of which Candace Parker is certainly one, you START with those.
I would say there's no more than five but if someone said, no, here's two more that the case can be made for, then I wouldn't argue with that. Position isn't even a problem in this era. Even my short list has a center, two forwards and two guards. Build a team around them.
Those who IMO it can be reasonably said are the BPITW.
Griner
EDD
Parker
Maya
DT_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 5:16 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Parker played on the 2006 World Championship team after her sophomore year in college, and was second on that team in rebounds and third in points. She was an absolute lock to make the 2008 Olympic team; it had nothing to do with playing one month in the WNBA.
Stewart has only played against "college kids"? The UConn teams she played on were probably better than half the WNBA teams she'll face. Stewart competed with and against the best players in the USA and the world on SIX gold medal USAB teams, and was a dominant player on all of them.
I'll state my opinion even more strongly: Breanna Stewart is a better individual defender, a better three-point shooter, a better passer, a better team offensive player, and a better team defensive player than Candace Parker . . . right now. Parker is a better rebounder and slightly better individualistic shot creator.
In sum, I think Parker should be on the Olympic team but not in lieu of Stewart. |
|
babycoop09
Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Posts: 206
Location: Georgia
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 5:29 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
The selection committee has to pick from such an always abundantly talented pool of American women. Not downplaying that at all... I'm saying it's a tough problem.
I think, however, for the three to five players who it can be argued are, and reasonably so, 'the best player in the world'... of which Candace Parker is certainly one, you START with those.
I would say there's no more than five but if someone said, no, here's two more that the case can be made for, then I wouldn't argue with that. Position isn't even a problem in this era. Even my short list has a center, two forwards and two guards. Build a team around them.
Those who IMO it can be reasonably said are the BPITW.
Griner
EDD
Parker
Maya
DT |
See this is my issue with the team. The five you have listed could be a starting lineup so at what point does it become ok to leave her off? Bird should be gone in favor of a younger guard. Catchings, and it hurts bad to say this about her and Bird, should be gone. McCoughtry is replaceable. Fowles is there for Defense but honestly with Griner and Charles she could b replaced with a younger player like Lavender. If the committee really felt they needed new blood while keeping some experienced players:
Whalen/Sims
Taurasi/Diggins
Moore/EDD
Parker/Charles/Stewart
Griner/Lavender
Then choose between Catchings and Bird as your aging star. Catchings has Moore left in the tank so I go with her. With this team you have youth for the future and experience. This team wins gold easily and you mean to tell me the person you take off the team is Parker? There is no excuse for this ommision unless she is really that volatile in the locker room which I have not heard.
|
|
Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188
Back to top |
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 5:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Parker played on the 2006 World Championship team after her sophomore year in college, and was second on that team in rebounds and third in points. She was an absolute lock to make the 2008 Olympic team; it had nothing to do with playing one month in the WNBA.
Stewart has only played against "college kids"? The UConn teams she played on were probably better than half the WNBA teams she'll face. Stewart competed with and against the best players in the USA and the world on SIX gold medal USAB teams, and was a dominant player on all of them.
I'll state my opinion even more strongly: Breanna Stewart is a better individual defender, a better three-point shooter, a better passer, a better team offensive player, and a better team defensive player than Candace Parker . . . right now. Parker is a better rebounder and slightly better individualistic shot creator.
In sum, I think Parker should be on the Olympic team but not in lieu of Stewart. |
If you were even close to right, nobody would ever get draft choices wrong.
Until you've proven it against the elite players, it's just speculation, no matter how confident your fans and your coach might be.
Oh, and any credibility you had disintigrated with your comment "The UConn teams she played on were probably better than half the WNBA teams she'll face." That is completely ludicrous. Why not ask Lewis how much "easier" the WNBA is than college. How'd that work out?
|
|
braveniler58
Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 10537
Location: Arizona
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 5:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Parker absolutely should be in. For me, it came down to three players who may/should have been left out instead of Parker:
McCoughtry
Augustus
Stewart
Out of the three and Parker, Augustus is the only one I'd call a guard, so she stays. So, either Angel or Stewie. Angel is good, but I prefer Stewie.
So, McCoughtry is the one who should have been left out instead.
_________________
Phoenix Mercury fan for life!
|
|
ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 14550
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 5:47 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| braveniler58 wrote: |
Parker absolutely should be in. For me, it came down to three players who may/should have been left out instead of Parker:
McCoughtry
Augustus
Stewart
Out of the three and Parker, Augustus is the only one I'd call a guard, so she stays. So, either Angel or Stewie. Angel is good, but I prefer Stewie.
So, McCoughtry is the one who should have been left out instead. |
Angel was less effective at the Worlds, but played as well as anybody on the US team, and better than most, at the last Olympics. She's a long way from #12 on the list.
And I'm not a big Angel fan (or Parker for that matter).
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66920
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
|
braveniler58
Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 10537
Location: Arizona
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 5:57 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| braveniler58 wrote: |
Parker absolutely should be in. For me, it came down to three players who may/should have been left out instead of Parker:
McCoughtry
Augustus
Stewart
Out of the three and Parker, Augustus is the only one I'd call a guard, so she stays. So, either Angel or Stewie. Angel is good, but I prefer Stewie.
So, McCoughtry is the one who should have been left out instead. |
Angel was less effective at the Worlds, but played as well as anybody on the US team, and better than most, at the last Olympics. She's a long way from #12 on the list. |
I didn't strictly rank them 1-13. I generally didn't consider the guards and centers when making this decision. It came down to a group of forwards, and I just think the others are better than Angel. There were other vets that are probably not better than Angel but I left them in because they deserve that last shot.
_________________
Phoenix Mercury fan for life!
|
|
myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 32335
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 6:13 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
The selection committee has to pick from such an always abundantly talented pool of American women. Not downplaying that at all... I'm saying it's a tough problem.
I think, however, for the three to five players who it can be argued are, and reasonably so, 'the best player in the world'... of which Candace Parker is certainly one, you START with those.
I would say there's no more than five but if someone said, no, here's two more that the case can be made for, then I wouldn't argue with that. Position isn't even a problem in this era. Even my short list has a center, two forwards and two guards. Build a team around them.
Those who IMO it can be reasonably said are the BPITW.
Griner
EDD
Parker
Maya
DT |
Agree totally. You just don't leave out any of these 'guys' unless you have a damn good reason. And a damn good reason has nothing to do with personal preference. It's so outrageous, steam is still coming out of my ears.
_________________
For there is always light,
if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
|
|
UofDel_Alum
Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Posts: 3979
Location: Delaware
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 6:36 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| myrtle wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
The selection committee has to pick from such an always abundantly talented pool of American women. Not downplaying that at all... I'm saying it's a tough problem.
I think, however, for the three to five players who it can be argued are, and reasonably so, 'the best player in the world'... of which Candace Parker is certainly one, you START with those.
I would say there's no more than five but if someone said, no, here's two more that the case can be made for, then I wouldn't argue with that. Position isn't even a problem in this era. Even my short list has a center, two forwards and two guards. Build a team around them.
Those who IMO it can be reasonably said are the BPITW.
Griner
EDD
Parker
Maya
DT |
Agree totally. You just don't leave out any of these 'guys' unless you have a damn good reason. And a damn good reason has nothing to do with personal preference. It's so outrageous, steam is still coming out of my ears. |
You have a right to be upset, this should not happen.
|
|
justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 8407
Location: Northfield, MN
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 6:49 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Stewart has only played against "college kids"? The UConn teams she played on were probably better than half the WNBA teams she'll face. |
Not. Even. Close.
The worst WNBA team would dominate UCONN. For some reason this sort of thought experiment constantly arises when there is an elite college program and a bottoming out professional one. Last year in Men's Hoops it was Kentucky versus the Sixers. Or in football it was Alabama versus the dregs of the NFL.
The reality is the professional team would always run circles around the college one. And it wouldn't even be close.
_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
|
|
ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11149
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 7:42 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| justintyme wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Stewart has only played against "college kids"? The UConn teams she played on were probably better than half the WNBA teams she'll face. |
Not. Even. Close.
The worst WNBA team would dominate UCONN. For some reason this sort of thought experiment constantly arises when there is an elite college program and a bottoming out professional one. Last year in Men's Hoops it was Kentucky versus the Sixers. Or in football it was Alabama versus the dregs of the NFL.
The reality is the professional team would always run circles around the college one. And it wouldn't even be close. |
X________
_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
|
|
blackrain
Joined: 06 Apr 2016
Posts: 18
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/28/16 7:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I voted for Stewart. I don't think she should be on this team. I don't think this is her time. She is not better than Parker at all IMO. The WNBA season will put that to rest though in the head to head matchups, and I can't wait. If i'm not mistaken, Parker only stayed in college three years basketball wise. I think she got injured her freshman year, or came in injured, not sure. I'll take it a little further, I think Odyssey should be on this team. I think Bird has had her time, and Odyssey should be on this team with Whalen, and Diana, learning from both of them. I would also campaign for Skylar instead of Bird, but Skylar may not be fully recovered from her injury. But Bird should not be on this team either.
I don't by the Parker's attitude excuse either. She has played with these players in previous Olympics and done well with all of them on the court from what I could see. I think this is Geno's last Olympic and he wanted to experience with Stewart, and therefore cut Parker. I know everyone wants to believe he had nothing to do with the cut, but lets get serious here. He cut her for Stewart and is hiding behind the committee.
|
|
Oldfandepot2
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 996
Location: Northeast
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/01/16 2:16 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| It appears that the selection of Stewart has more to do with following a trend or a tradition of selecting that year's or the previous year's WCBB POY. That practice actually started on the men's side with the selection of Christian Lattiner for the Dream team the first time that pros were allowed to play on the team and started with Rebecca Lobo who was the then WCBB POY in 1996 and was given a roster spot on the women's team which was coincidentally the same year the WNBA was inchoated.
_________________
Cave Canem!
We must listen to each other no matter how much it hurts. Bishop Desmond Tutu.
|
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/01/16 2:41 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Bird, Catch and Stewart are tradition picks.
The returning loyal aging vet gets a place on the team regardless of whether she's a little too old or not. Thats' how Team USA works. Dawn Staley is a perfect example.
Team USA also usually takes the best college player. That's Stewart no questions asked.
Taurasi, Moore, Elena, and Griner are also obvious picks assuming they are healthy and they want the spot.
You need another PG, Whalen's another vet that has been loyal and has played well. So she's an obvious in too.
So we have Tina, Angel, and Mone as options to take off in favor of Parker. I think Tina and Angel bring more to the table than 'Mone, but I think generally speaking, the rest of the team would prefer 'Mone on the team to either of those two.
That being said, I think we need more guards than posts, so I'd say the choice was between (and would also be for me) Tina and Candace. I probably would have gone with Candace given her versatility, but I can see an argument in favor of more of a low post presence.
That being said, I probably would have also cut one of 'Mone or Angel in favor of a younger guard too. (Probably 'Mone)
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
bballgrl
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 3629
Back to top |
| Posted: 05/01/16 4:49 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
So many post on this subject. No matter what any of us think, the team is set baring injury to any of the set picks.
I do wish that a young point guard would have been on the team to learn from Sue,Walen and DT. Then again there are several good young point guards in the w and by the next Olympics either would probably be better and not need to learn from a veteran.
So many have a problem with Catchings being on the team probably due to her age. We need to remember that she did lead her team to 5 games against the Lynx in the finals and her team has won a title in the past.
|
|
|
|
