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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21929
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9625
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Posted: 03/18/16 9:04 am ::: |
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miller40 wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
In 2005 WNBA ESPN ratings were 282,000 viewers. In 2015 they were 202,000. In 2005 WNBA attendance averaged 8,172. In 2015 WNBA attendance was the lowest in it's history - 7,318. It's not just about getting new fans, they ought to try lowering the rim to see if they can get back the fans they lost.
You don't need movable rims all over the place if you just make it a WNBA thing. |
So you want to introduce dunking and phase out jump shots? Because making only one league out of HS, NCAA, and international basketball play on a rim at a different height will do that. |
Dunking didn't phase out jump shots in the NBA or college men's basketball. The rim would probably have to be at 8 feet to get the amount of dunking in the WNBA that you see in the NBA, and they aren't talking about 8 feet.
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UofDel_Alum
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 3979 Location: Delaware
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11149
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Posted: 03/18/16 9:39 am ::: |
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It's likely that nine-foot rims would help female players shoot better -- after all, strength is a big part of shooting, and it takes less strength to elevate a ball over a nine-foot rim than a 10-foot rim.
Obviously, it would take a lot of adjustment for veteran players, and it would be difficult to handle shifting from one rim height to another at different times of the year.
But the question, I think, is whether that improvement would change much about the women's game.
Jammerbirdi mentions empty arenas, which is absolutely true. People don't watch women's games as much as they watch men's games, but that's true at all levels of the sport. I've often brought this up, but male students in high school and college very seldom watch women play basketball in any numbers -- and for whatever reason, neither do female students. Both groups will watch males play, and in large numbers.
So would lowering the rim impact attendance from that group? (Yes, I know he's only advocating it for the WNBA, but if it improves the WNBA game presumably it would improve the game at lower levels as well.)
Would a higher shooting percentage and occasional dunks improve TV ratings?
For the sake of argument, let's say they would increase both live attendance and TV viewership -- but another question would be, by how much?
I don't think lowering the rims would have any impact, as Bob Lamm points out, on the homophobia, gender role expectations and other larger issues that to my mind limit interest in women's sports. It might have a slight impact on a small percentage of basketball fans, but all in all, it just seem worth the trouble. So attendance goes up five percent and TV ratings do the same -- has anything substantial changed?
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 03/18/16 11:02 am ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
miller40 wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
In 2005 WNBA ESPN ratings were 282,000 viewers. In 2015 they were 202,000. In 2005 WNBA attendance averaged 8,172. In 2015 WNBA attendance was the lowest in it's history - 7,318. It's not just about getting new fans, they ought to try lowering the rim to see if they can get back the fans they lost.
You don't need movable rims all over the place if you just make it a WNBA thing. |
So you want to introduce dunking and phase out jump shots? Because making only one league out of HS, NCAA, and international basketball play on a rim at a different height will do that. |
Dunking didn't phase out jump shots in the NBA or college men's basketball. The rim would probably have to be at 8 feet to get the amount of dunking in the WNBA that you see in the NBA, and they aren't talking about 8 feet. |
I think miller40 was addressing what would happen if women had different rim heights at different levels/leagues. Players would struggle to adapt and the FG% on jump shots would decrease noticeably.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24356 Location: London
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Posted: 03/18/16 11:28 am ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
UofDel_Alum wrote: |
Luuuc wrote: |
Did that just happen?
I'm screen capping this moment when UofDel_Alum betrayed Elena! |
temporary insanity |
Ironically, I think Elena is one player who would benefit the least from a lower rim. Here game is based on skill, jump shooting, one on play, no jumping over people to get to the rim. Someone like Angel, might benefit since her game is more about slithering around people to get to the rim. |
But Elena's just short of being able to dunk consistently. I remember as a kid being just short of being able to dunk on the lower rims (8ft maybe, not sure) we had where I played, so I bought a smaller ball that I could properly palm and therefore dunk. I reckon she wants those few extra inches to get rid of that same almostdunk frustration . |
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 5361 Location: Fayetteville
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Posted: 03/18/16 11:32 am ::: |
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I don't think its a good idea for the consistency adjustment reason, the "not gonna make a difference with haters" reason, the stigma that would attach itself reason (W fans of the current way might grumble about the purity of the game, general basketball fans may see it as a step down because they're "making special allowances for women") logical or not. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66920 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 03/18/16 11:50 am ::: |
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justintyme wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
miller40 wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
In 2005 WNBA ESPN ratings were 282,000 viewers. In 2015 they were 202,000. In 2005 WNBA attendance averaged 8,172. In 2015 WNBA attendance was the lowest in it's history - 7,318. It's not just about getting new fans, they ought to try lowering the rim to see if they can get back the fans they lost.
You don't need movable rims all over the place if you just make it a WNBA thing. |
So you want to introduce dunking and phase out jump shots? Because making only one league out of HS, NCAA, and international basketball play on a rim at a different height will do that. |
Dunking didn't phase out jump shots in the NBA or college men's basketball. The rim would probably have to be at 8 feet to get the amount of dunking in the WNBA that you see in the NBA, and they aren't talking about 8 feet. |
I think miller40 was addressing what would happen if women had different rim heights at different levels/leagues. Players would struggle to adapt and the FG% on jump shots would decrease noticeably. |
Plus the stars would have to relearn the 10' hoop when the play overseas or in the Olympics.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 03/18/16 3:44 pm ::: |
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I was going to say the same thing. Then when they come from overseas back to the WNBA they have to relearn shooting at the lower rim, which will not be as easy as people think. It would make quality of play worse. It's a very bad idea. Just think. The quality of WNBA play is usually shoddy in the first few weeks and then picks up substantially as teams develop chemistry. I can't imagine throwing in an adjustment to lower rims into that equation.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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eyevolley4
Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 4636
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Posted: 03/18/16 4:05 pm ::: |
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Test it in a preseason tourney.
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PRballer
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 2544
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Posted: 03/18/16 4:26 pm ::: |
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Some thoughts -
- eyevolley beat me to it, but get some publicity/buzz and do it in a televised pre-season game. Call it experimental. Great PR for the league and we'll see how it goes and if the forwards actually can slam it down with ease. Maybe a few games to drum up excitement for it.
-Longer term? I doubt it would work. The game, when played at the highest level, is worth the price of admission and the playoffs have proven that. The W increased scoring and offensive efficiency with changing to the quarter system and calling fouls. I don't see
-Also has anyone watched the panel of pundits and coaches from the women's Final Four in Tampa last year? This same concept was brought up by an ESPN executive and you should just see Florida State head coach Sue Semrau's priceless reaction. Net-net (pun intended) she didn't think it was a good idea. At all.
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Str8_Butta
Joined: 24 Nov 2004 Posts: 7646
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Posted: 03/18/16 4:52 pm ::: |
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Why not shorten the FT line and 3pt line while your at it, oh and shorten them shorts and tighten them tops...smh
_________________ WNBA fan since 1997
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 03/18/16 7:08 pm ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
In 2005 WNBA ESPN ratings were 282,000 viewers. In 2015 they were 202,000. In 2005 WNBA attendance averaged 8,172. In 2015 WNBA attendance was the lowest in it's history - 7,318. It's not just about getting new fans, they ought to try lowering the rim to see if they can get back the fans they lost.
You don't need movable rims all over the place if you just make it a WNBA thing. |
#This = Volumes
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 03/18/16 7:46 pm ::: |
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Why not convert the women's game? No matter how long we wait women will never have the athleticism as their men counterparts. I say experiment with the idea if im the Pres Of The W. At least a probationary period too see the effect it has on your product. If the change does occur experimental or perm i do believe that all levels must adopt the change too. Specifically College, High School , AAU programs. We already have the smaller ball with the exception of International play i say go for it..i mean really what does the W have to lose at this point? 20 years means established in my eyes so win or lose the league will find out its true potential in my opinion. Btw if lowered id say only to 9 Ft. Most W players are already finishing somewhere near the rim so 1 ft should excell those finishes from a fan point of view.
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63779
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Posted: 03/18/16 7:51 pm ::: |
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The WNBA has been moving toward FIBA standards, not away, which makes sense.
If you guys wanna create a new sport, keep my WNBA out of it. Completely out of it.... no exhibition games. Nada.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 9199 Location: St. Paul, MN
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Posted: 03/18/16 8:35 pm ::: |
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FS02 wrote: |
Dunking just doesn't impress me all that much, it's not hard to do if you can jump high enough. Almost every sport I can think of has some play that takes 10x more skill and finesse than that. |
I can watch Steph Curry, Taurasi, Maya shoot all damn day. Agreed.
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009 Posts: 9199 Location: St. Paul, MN
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9625
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Posted: 03/18/16 10:08 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
The WNBA has been moving toward FIBA standards, not away, which makes sense.
If you guys wanna create a new sport, keep my WNBA out of it. Completely out of it.... no exhibition games. Nada. |
It wasn't a new sport when they added a 24 second clock or a three point line. It wouldn't be a new sport with 9 or 8 foot rims.
Your WNBA is not typical - a billionaire owner who sits courtside with a stacked team that draws a great crowd from multiple championships. There is another WNBA where only 3,112 people came to a playoff game in the massively populated LA area last September.
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Richard 77
Joined: 19 Nov 2004 Posts: 4142 Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin
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Posted: 03/18/16 10:12 pm ::: |
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No, to changing the height of the rim in the WNBA. Not only will men who hate the women's game not change their minds regarding the WNBA, they'll just point, hate more, and laugh even louder saying: "I told you so!"_________________ If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63779
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Posted: 03/18/16 11:00 pm ::: |
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A poll on this subject was ran here about 3 and a half years ago. Not well received at all. This idea ranks up there with building a wall at the Mexican border.
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=73948
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9625
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Posted: 03/18/16 11:35 pm ::: |
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But, lowering the rims would be an attempt to increase the interest of people with marginal interest or gain the interest of people with no interest. That poll was to people who already have high interest with the way things are and probably should have asked about whether it would decrease their interest, as their interest cannot increase.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63779
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Posted: 03/18/16 11:41 pm ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
But, lowering the rims is an attempt to increase the interest of people with marginal interest or gain the interest of people with no interest. That poll was to people who already have high interest with the way things are. |
I think it's more important to keep the current fan base happy, and not do anything to put them off, than to pick up some unreliable marginal types.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9625
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Posted: 03/18/16 11:53 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
But, lowering the rims is an attempt to increase the interest of people with marginal interest or gain the interest of people with no interest. That poll was to people who already have high interest with the way things are. |
I think it's more important to keep the current fan base happy, and not do anything to put them off, than to pick up some unreliable marginal types. |
You definitely don't want to alienate your base so the WNBA should consult them before making any major changes. But if the WNBA thought their base was sufficient Val Ackerman would still be president.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11149
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Posted: 03/19/16 12:24 pm ::: |
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Again, the question is how much is there to gain by lowering the rims?
So we'll have a couple more ordinary dunks -- no Aaron Gordon-like throwdowns, 9-foot basket or not -- slightly better shooting and a significant segment of fans and non-fans upset.
How many more people will go to WNBA games if the rims are lowered? How many more will watch on TV?
I'm very sure that the gains would be minor, at best. The WNBA will not become a major sport just by lowering the rims 12 inches, so what's the point?
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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