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Genero36
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TonyL222
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 Posted: 07/07/15 2:26 pm ::: |
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Not that its any excuse, but alcohol seems to have played a part. Reportedly the young woman used the N-Word during their brief conversation.
Still, I can only imagine very few scenarios in which I'd hit a woman. He didn't hit her in self defense. It was retaliation. She appears to be drunk (hard to really tell, though).
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/07/15 2:33 pm ::: |
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| He clearly needs to learn the value of a proportional response
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justintyme
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| Posted: 07/07/15 3:03 pm ::: |
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I hear things like this all the time. It's "self defense" because he/she hit me first.
Nope. That's not how it works. All that would mean is that they both are guilty of assault. We are not allowed retaliation under the law. For it to be self defense we have to reasonably believe that taking action is necessary to prevent us from being seriously harmed.
There is no way this guy felt in danger from the woman, and his actions weren't required to stop further assaults from her.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 07/07/15 4:13 pm ::: |
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He physically altercated with her while her back was turned. That's a big problem. They may have been jostling to get to the bar outside of frame before they even enter the picture. It looks like that's a possibility from the way they come into view. But what we have here is just the footage and judging by that she gets to the bar first with her back to the guy and he is immediately wrangling with that temporary inconvenience in a way that is completely and absolutely inappropriate. She whirls on him as is her right and confronts him verbally and holds up her hands in a self-defense posture. Again, appropriate. He has already been physical with her. He then grabs her arm. Uh-uh. Not appropriate by a mile. She takes a swing at him, absolutely appropriate considering he has a physical hold on her person. She misses and then he punches the shit out of her in the face. I don't know the law and haven't heard from witnesses but going by what's on that video this guy should be in jail for a year and playing Canadian football when he gets out._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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| Posted: 07/07/15 4:55 pm ::: |
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| And why is a 19 year old in a bar? |
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/07/15 5:19 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
Yeah I know this is a taboo POV, but why should women have carte blanche regarding physical assault because the victim is male? Stinks of gender bullshit to me. You wanna play, you gonna pay.
Here is another woman who will think twice about escalating a verbal altercation w/ a man by hitting him. And a man who will think twice before retaliating.
Btw, I guess the gender issue supercedes the racism/n-word issue. Lol. |
I'll go with the comment above suggesting that they both probably committed assault and that you don't get one free punch just because somebody punched you. (True, by the way, with any gender/size combination - if you get arrested in a bar fight, chances are your opponent does, too.)
Also, in the real world, the police and prosecutors will go after the bigger, stronger person unless the smaller person started it and used a weapon.
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 07/07/15 5:51 pm ::: |
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Again. He gets physical with her first while her back is turned to him and continues physical aggression after she whirls on him. Video does not show a bar fight. It shows an assault initiated by a much larger male athlete against a woman. We are simply not going to long suffer some kind of a gender equality override of the disparity in size and strength between a man and a woman when there is a physical altercation. Or we are an idiot society. I'm almost 58 years old. There's not a woman alive outside a professional cage fighter who I couldn't absolulty destroy in less than thirty seconds. A guy like this could have killed a man with that punch. She couldn't even make contact. There's the difference. Send him up the river where he belongs and maybe he can play arena football someday._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Genero36
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 07/07/15 6:29 pm ::: |
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Youth Coach is right. He's not in objective fear for his own safety. There's no self defense. His course is to walk away. If he doesn't like it, call the police and have her arrested. But there's no defense to his slugging her in the face.
"She hit me first" is not a legal defense.
And Youth Coach posed another appropriate question - why is a 19 year old at the bar drinking? He should be charged with that, and the bar should have its liquor license suspended.
BTW, really insightful pair of Tweets from CBS's Jon Sullivan:
FSU did the right thing dismissing Johnson. Once again in sports, it took video for harsher punishment to occur after a man hits a woman.
It's as if: A) People are only repulsed by a man hitting a woman if they see it; or B) People don't believe women's claims & police reports.
That said, I am still troubled by Hope Solo's conduct being completely glossed over in all the hype about WC soccer. Guess there was no video so it didn't happen.
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 07/07/15 6:49 pm ::: |
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In what universe of some people's mind does a guy get to grab a girl he doesn't know AT all? lol. He first pins her against the bar and when she turns around (which she has a very hard time doing because of him) he grabs her. Everything she does to him is after that and takes place while he is continuing to physically overpower her. Which he never stops doing up until he blasts her in the face with a closed fist. What she's doing fellas, is called STRUGGLING.  Sorry it looks like a violent attack on his buddy to De'Andre Johnson. And let's get something straight about the N-word. Bad bad vile and hurtful word. But if someone comes out of nowhere and puts a body and hands on a drunk woman she's liable to say some shit. If that dude doesn't spend a year in jail then society and the media (and some folks here) shouldn't come crying about men hitting women and getting away with it._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 07/07/15 7:00 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Youth Coach is right. He's not in objective fear for his own safety. There's no self defense. His course is to walk away. If he doesn't like it, call the police and have her arrested. But there's no defense to his slugging her in the face.
"She hit me first" is not a legal defense.
And Youth Coach posed another appropriate question - why is a 19 year old at the bar drinking? He should be charged with that, and the bar should have its liquor license suspended.
BTW, really insightful pair of Tweets from CBS's Jon Sullivan:
FSU did the right thing dismissing Johnson. Once again in sports, it took video for harsher punishment to occur after a man hits a woman.
It's as if: A) People are only repulsed by a man hitting a woman if they see it; or B) People don't believe women's claims & police reports.
That said, I am still troubled by Hope Solo's conduct being completely glossed over in all the hype about WC soccer. Guess there was no video so it didn't happen. |
He should of walked away from that but her dumb ass should of kept her hands to herself. What was her reasoning for it anyway? Because he pushed into her? It's a crowded bar, get over yourself...Picked a fight with someone for no reason.
I have been in bars & clubs and seen men of ALL races knock females out cold because they put their hands on them. I'm not saying that's right AT ALL but you have no idea who the hell people are or how they were raised then add alcohol to the equation....STOP PUTTING YOUR HANDS ON FOLKS... PERIOD.
If you want to be treated like a lady, then act like one and not call foul when your actions see consequences.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 07/07/15 7:14 pm ::: |
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| Genero36 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Youth Coach is right. He's not in objective fear for his own safety. There's no self defense. His course is to walk away. If he doesn't like it, call the police and have her arrested. But there's no defense to his slugging her in the face.
"She hit me first" is not a legal defense.
And Youth Coach posed another appropriate question - why is a 19 year old at the bar drinking? He should be charged with that, and the bar should have its liquor license suspended.
BTW, really insightful pair of Tweets from CBS's Jon Sullivan:
FSU did the right thing dismissing Johnson. Once again in sports, it took video for harsher punishment to occur after a man hits a woman.
It's as if: A) People are only repulsed by a man hitting a woman if they see it; or B) People don't believe women's claims & police reports.
That said, I am still troubled by Hope Solo's conduct being completely glossed over in all the hype about WC soccer. Guess there was no video so it didn't happen. |
He should of walked away from that but her dumb ass should of kept her hands to herself. What was her reasoning for it anyway? Because he pushed into her? It's a crowded bar, get over yourself...Picked a fight with someone for no reason.
I have been in bars & clubs and seen men of ALL races knock females out cold because they put their hands on them. I'm not saying that's right AT ALL but you have no idea who the hell people are or how they were raised then add alcohol to the equation....STOP PUTTING YOUR HANDS ON FOLKS... PERIOD.
If you want to be treated like a lady, then act like one and not call foul when your actions see consequences. |
I don't disagree, and she could or should be arrested and charged too.
But just because she's an idiot doesn't excuse him or provide a defense to the charges against him.
And she likely did not have as much to lose.
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 07/07/15 7:17 pm ::: |
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But he didn't WANT to walk away from it. He INITIATED it. It was what HE wanted. To do. To her.  _________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/07/15 8:04 pm ::: |
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| If I'm a Florida State quarterback and I've seen the circus that was Jameis Winston, why is my ass going anywhere not related to classes or football?
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 07/07/15 8:16 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| If I'm a Florida State quarterback and I've seen the circus that was Jameis Winston, why is my ass going anywhere not related to classes or football? |
I got this. Because you're exactly the kind of violent idiot who would punch a girl in the face? Some little thing I've somehow managed to go 58 years without doing? _________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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TonyL222
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/08/15 12:20 pm ::: |
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| TonyL222 wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| But he didn't WANT to walk away from it. He INITIATED it. It was what HE wanted. To do. To her. |
Not seeing your conclusion that he initiated it. You are right we don't see what happened prior off camera. You say he pushed her from behind. It could very well be that in a tight crowd (which it appears to be) he was josttled and bumped into her by accident.
She spun and reacted verbally. She raised her right fist in a threatening manner, which is assault ("...the threat of bodily harm that reasonably causes fear of harm in the victim)". He protects himself by grabbing her fisted arm. All this time verbal assualts seem to be going both ways. She attempts to knee him in the groin (battery). She punches him with her left fist - battery, whether she connected or not. He punches her - battery.l
They are both equally guilty under the law, IMO. There might be some nuances with age and state of intoxication. The bar may have some culpability - even with the number of people in the bar at the time vs occupancy.
Just saying that this video can be seen from very different perspectives. In my book, a real man woulda walked away - but I'm old and ancient  |
I'm not even sure he used a closed fist.
Anyway, I wonder if things would have unfolded differently if their skin colors/genders were different- both white, both black, she black/he white, he/he, she/he, she/she.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/08/15 10:58 pm ::: |
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They should both get assault charges. (He didn't need to do anything more than restrain her for self defense.)
But I would think it would be obvious why one is more wrong than the other. She makes contact, she probably hurts her hand more than his face. He could have killed her if he hit her hard enough.
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TonyL222
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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| Posted: 07/09/15 5:41 am ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
They should both get assault charges. (He didn't need to do anything more than restrain her for self defense.)
But I would think it would be obvious why one is more wrong than the other. She makes contact, she probably hurts her hand more than his face. He could have killed her if he hit her hard enough. |
Is he legally more wrong? I know its a brief clip without sound or context, but maybe one of the lawyers here can weigh in. But the fact that he hit harder doesn't mean he was "more wrong", IMHO. He certainly cause more pain, and he certainly looks like an ass. But they appear equally wrong to me.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/10/15 2:54 pm ::: |
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Why do Florida State football players keep punching women in the face in bars?
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/13234576/dalvin-cook-florida-state-seminoles
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"I told him I had a boyfriend and wasn't interested," said the woman, who spoke to ESPN.com on the condition she not be identified. The woman said the argument became heated, and then Cook punched her in the face several times. Her friend ran to a nearby Tallahassee police car, which wasn't occupied, so the woman called 911.
"They kept telling me they were football players," the woman said. "They kept telling me to Google them. They told me they were football players and they could buy me in two years." |
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 07/10/15 4:32 pm ::: |
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| TonyL222 wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
They should both get assault charges. (He didn't need to do anything more than restrain her for self defense.)
But I would think it would be obvious why one is more wrong than the other. She makes contact, she probably hurts her hand more than his face. He could have killed her if he hit her hard enough. |
Is he legally more wrong? I know its a brief clip without sound or context, but maybe one of the lawyers here can weigh in. But the fact that he hit harder doesn't mean he was "more wrong", IMHO. He certainly cause more pain, and he certainly looks like an ass. But they appear equally wrong to me. |
"He hit her harder" doesn't mean that she didn't commit assault, but the reality is that prosecutors are much more likely to go after someone who could have hurt the other person than someone who couldn't. If you shove someone, that's technically assault, but the shovee won't have any luck finding a cop to arrest you for it or a prosecutor who will try you for it, unless you shove the person into traffic or over a cliff (or, needless to say, unless the shovee is a cop).
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 07/10/15 5:18 pm ::: |
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shovee_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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