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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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 Posted: 12/03/14 3:19 pm ::: No indictment for cop in NY strangling |
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http://news.yahoo.com/lawyer--no-indictment-for-officer-in-nyc-chokehold-death-200545534.html
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A video shot by an onlooker and widely viewed on the Internet showed the 43-year-old Garner telling a group of police officers to leave him alone as they tried to arrest him.
Pantaleo responded by wrapping his arm around Garner's neck in an apparent chokehold, which is banned under NYPD policy. The heavyset Garner, who had asthma, was heard repeatedly gasping, "I can't breathe!" A second video surfaced that showed police and paramedics appearing to make no effort to revive Garner while he lay motionless on the ground. He later died at a hospital. |
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 12/03/14 6:32 pm ::: |
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| WTF.
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Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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Luuuc
#NATC
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 12/03/14 7:11 pm ::: |
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| I would say that a race war is coming, but it's apparent that it's already started. His death was captured on film, and the man who filmed it was indicted but not the officer who held him (and killed him) in an illegal choke hold. There could be a lynching of another black person hanging from a tree right now by these officers and they still wouldn't be indicted/arrested..this is beyond sickening.
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Genero36
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Genero36
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| Posted: 12/03/14 7:21 pm ::: |
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Sean Stout @TERROREYEStv
Hundreds of protestors in Grand Central Station right now chanting "I CANT BREATH"
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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| Posted: 12/03/14 7:52 pm ::: |
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Complex @ComplexMag
Moment of silence in Times Square. #EricGarner
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Queens
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| Posted: 12/03/14 10:12 pm ::: |
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| Remember when cases like this went to a show trial with incompetent prosecution and a biased jury? We can't even get that pretense anymore.
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Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/03/14 10:30 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| Remember when cases like this went to a show trial with incompetent prosecution and a biased jury? We can't even get that pretense anymore. |
Trials are expensive. They're trying to save the taxpayers money.
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beknighted
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 12/03/14 11:14 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| Remember when cases like this went to a show trial with incompetent prosecution and a biased jury? We can't even get that pretense anymore. |
*sigh* I don't even know what to say. I can't take any consolation in the likelihood that the family will get a ton of money in the civil suit.
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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Location: Fayetteville
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| Posted: 12/04/14 12:49 am ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| Remember when cases like this went to a show trial with incompetent prosecution and a biased jury? We can't even get that pretense anymore. |
Yep. |
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hyperetic
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 12/04/14 12:49 am ::: |
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| beknighted wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Remember when cases like this went to a show trial with incompetent prosecution and a biased jury? We can't even get that pretense anymore. |
*sigh* I don't even know what to say. I can't take any consolation in the likelihood that the family will get a ton of money in the civil suit. |
It is very disheartening. |
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sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/04/14 6:43 am ::: |
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| Genero36 wrote: |
| I would say that a race war is coming, but it's apparent that it's already started. |
i agree, and it has. only the face of it has changed.
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smenko
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 12/04/14 7:35 am ::: |
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The race war has been in this country or dare I say on this geographical area of the world since humans have existed and visited it.
The fact that no (Pick a color) child is safe on the streets of our cities is an accepted norm. The fact that we have a sitting black President who is under constant threat from an extreme group of people (who now threaten to keep him from flying on Air Force One), is considered normal behavior.
My daughter asked me why do the protesters hit the streets? Because it is within their rights to do so in a democracy. She thinks they are wrong.
The prison system has become institutionalized enslavement. I would even go so far as to begin to see it as camps of a concentration of individuals of a certain race.
This is very scary stuff happening right before our eyes and there is not a thing we can seem to do about it.
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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| Posted: 12/04/14 1:43 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Remember when cases like this went to a show trial with incompetent prosecution and a biased jury? We can't even get that pretense anymore. |
Trials are expensive. They're trying to save the taxpayers money. |
Nyc has paid over 1 billion dollars in police related settlements to civilians don't know how this is saving taxpayers' money.
I want to see advanced degrees for law enforcement people on all levels. One must prove that they have the cognitive thinking, common sense and self discipline. Get rid of the riff raff and thugs with badges.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/04/14 4:43 pm ::: |
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| ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Remember when cases like this went to a show trial with incompetent prosecution and a biased jury? We can't even get that pretense anymore. |
Trials are expensive. They're trying to save the taxpayers money. |
Nyc has paid over 1 billion dollars in police related settlements to civilians don't know how this is saving taxpayers' money.
I want to see advanced degrees for law enforcement people on all levels. One must prove that they have the cognitive thinking, common sense and self discipline. Get rid of the riff raff and thugs with badges. |
That would be great. But the problem is you will still attract a certain type of person. The level of rejection in screening for people with strong cognitive thinking alone would be surprising I think. But you also have to screen for mental health and emotional maturity. Men want to be cops, a lot of them anyway, because of 'little boy' thinking and thought processes. Things tied in with their masculinity and desires to be respected and feared etc. Just my opinion but a disturbing percentage of police officers have some personality and social problems in these areas. And they find others like themselves in the field of law enforcement. And a lot is tolerated just out of basic personnel needs.
Conversely, how would we get people who can even pay for advance degrees let alone be of that ilk to agree to strap on a gun and a bulletproof vest and deal with the criminals and riff raff and thugs on the street?
People are promising retraining and better training etc. in the wake of this debacle in New York. No one among the media, officials, protesters, etc. are anywhere near the mark, again, IMO.
Policies and procedures. The police write their own. As long as the police make the rules for their encounters with the public, how and when to use force, etc., with, I'm so sure, a big assist from the police unions, with nothing but rubber-stamping from weak civilian oversight boards, etc. the police are going to continue to escalate situations, in this case, INTRODUCE violence, in this case, DEADLY violence, over minor non-violent and even, I believe, non-criminal (selling cigarettes without paying taxes) violations. The people, if the people were making the rules for engagement for the police, would no-doubt preclude the police from INTRODUCING physical violence into a situation where a person only needs to be issued a ticket.
Just really focusing on this situation but you could imagine a complete overhaul in what the police are instructed to do in a myriad number of situations.
I mean, just step back from all of this and ask yourselves, isn't a society which allows the police to draft their own rules, policies and procedures, of how and when to interact with the society which has hired and empowered them and is paying them... just asking for endless troubles and abuses by the police?_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/04/14 5:11 pm ::: |
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| ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Remember when cases like this went to a show trial with incompetent prosecution and a biased jury? We can't even get that pretense anymore. |
Trials are expensive. They're trying to save the taxpayers money. |
Nyc has paid over 1 billion dollars in police related settlements to civilians don't know how this is saving taxpayers' money. |
I was making a bad joke
| Quote: |
| I want to see advanced degrees for law enforcement people on all levels. One must prove that they have the cognitive thinking, common sense and self discipline. Get rid of the riff raff and thugs with badges. |
You must want far fewer cops than we have now.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 12/04/14 5:14 pm ::: |
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This is so different from the racial protests from long ago, because (in *theory*) there are no laws to get rid of, laws that would discriminate by race any more: there's nothing to carry to the SCOTUS as unconstitutional, is there?
Now, it's about unwritten, intangible-but-oh-so-real bias, the eternal legacy of perceived "differences". Old ideas and belief systems die a slow death. Its euthanasia is an enlightened society's duty.
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cthskzfn
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Barrister15
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
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| Posted: 12/04/14 8:32 pm ::: |
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| Genero36 wrote: |
| I would say that a race war is coming, but it's apparent that it's already started. His death was captured on film, and the man who filmed it was indicted but not the officer who held him (and killed him) in an illegal choke hold. There could be a lynching of another black person hanging from a tree right now by these officers and they still wouldn't be indicted/arrested..this is beyond sickening. |
The man that filmed it was indicted for weapons possession (ironically, the weapon didn't have his fingerprints on it -- but was sufficient for indictment).
The man that filmed it is a former client of mine.
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Genero36
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cthskzfn
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TonyL222
Joined: 01 Oct 2007
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| Posted: 12/05/14 12:28 pm ::: |
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So, the police say they had to take him down 'cause he was resisting arrest. Apparently his "crime" was selling loosie's (single cigarettes, which I've heard he wasn't even selling that day).
So my question is this. WHY is that even an arrestable offense? He wasn't dealing drugs. Wouldn't a citation and a fine be more appropriate?
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Genero36
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 12/05/14 5:01 pm ::: |
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| TonyL222 wrote: |
So, the police say they had to take him down 'cause he was resisting arrest. Apparently his "crime" was selling loosie's (single cigarettes, which I've heard he wasn't even selling that day).
So my question is this. WHY is that even an arrestable offense? He wasn't dealing drugs. Wouldn't a citation and a fine be more appropriate? |
As a person who has had some serious attitude about police using excessive deadly force against minority communities (and anyone else) for going into a second decade now... two directly related things I've always focused on are contained in your concern right here. What is the REASON for your interaction with the individual? Would the REASON itself warrant the introduction of violence? Would society WANT society's response to whatever the infraction is in the form of intervention by our police departments to carry with it the threat or possibly or even likelyhood of violence, which when you're dealing with the police ALWAYS carries with it the threat of deadly violence.
If the sound in your head of that reason for the interaction with the citizen and potential DEADLY VIOLENCE initiated BY the police CLANG with a outrageously discordant tone... AS IN THIS CASE... maybe we need to get control of how the police do their jobs.
My thing is this. And this might be difficult and more expensive. The police should never be the ones to introduce violence into a situation or altercation with a citizen unless there is some strong justification for it in terms of the initial reason for the stop or intervention by law enforcement. Significant criminal activity? Certainly.
Any and everything else? No. Walk away. Ticket, follow. Interview witnesses, etc. But if it's not a criminal act (and there are plenty of those to keep the cops busy) but a violation of some other form, there is no way the police should be able to introduce potentially deadly violence into a situation where violence isn't already and visit that level of force upon a citizen.
First thing that opens up for examination is the family who calls 911 because their son or brother is acting erratically. If you do that in the city of Los Angeles you better hope your loved one is only acting because the police show up ready for to put that person down and that means and has meant many many times the death of the individual whose own family called 911 on and THAT was because they were worried about that person. I think people HERE in LA know now that you don't dial 911 on a family member in those circumstance. Well that's wrong. You should be able to pick up a telephone and call and get help when someone you love is out of control and the police or EMTs should arrive with the very difficult and dangerous task of getting control of the situation without causing harm to that person who's acting out. Because that person is not a criminal. That person and that family needs help. And yeah, it sucks that it's dangerous work dealign with unstable people. But you took that job and whether you like it or not SOCIETY should be making the rules there.
But there is something else here that absolutely must be said. And with a case like this that is so outrageous and disgusting hanging in the air this point is going to be not just lost but washed over, shouted down, etc. Well... I'm going to say it.
We need to teach people in this country to do exactly what the police say. Period. If the cops say put your hands behind your back, put your hands behind your back. Period. I can't honestly say that you don't have the legal right to disobey those kinds of directions by the police but I do know that disobeying those kinds of directions by the police can and will get you killed. I know that and I would not dream of resisting armed police officers. I'm not putting my very existence into the hands of a person who became a cop for the reasons that I know people become cops. I might be running my mouth. But whatever those cops are telling me to do, I'm doing.
I don't understand why anyone, especially people who are clearly being taken out disproportionally by police in this country, would intentionally fail to comply with instructions by the police and would instead physically resist the cops in any way. First of all, it's untenable that we could have a stable safe society wherein the people get to decide if they are going to cooperate with the police that day. We give police the power to detain and apprehend people. Period. Society does that. If any of that is unjustified it's a matter for the courts. It's not an option. We somehow have created (and I think are helping to further foster) the notion that cooperation with the police is optional. That's getting people killed... wounded... slammed onto the pavement... beaten, etc.
The police (should) have the responsibility of properly dealing with exceptions to people who are unable to comply due to some other factor. People who are disturbed. And yes that process may be more drawn out and expensive and involve the presence on the scene of specialists and mental health personnel etc. in order to deal with disturbed individuals as people who need HELP and not as criminals.
But there really can't be scenarios wherein people decide that at any given moment they want the police to just leave them alone and no officer I will not put my hands behind my back. WE have to stop the police from even having the option of handcuffing a person for non-criminal behavior. They can't have that option. Society has to take that option away from the police. But we have to get the message across to every last man woman or child in this country that WHATEVER the police are instructing you to do physically you must comply._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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