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So what about Tamir Rice?
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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 11/26/14 4:49 pm    ::: So what about Tamir Rice? Reply Reply with quote

Shocked



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Barrister15



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PostPosted: 11/26/14 11:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Horrifying and senseless. Absolutely senseless.


beknighted



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PostPosted: 11/26/14 11:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I just saw the video. Luckily the resolution was stinky, but still it's scary how the cops drive up, just a few feet away and he's shot almost before they stop.

And I've now read that the dispatcher did not relay the information that the caller said it looked like a toy gun.

Such a terrible thing.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 11/27/14 5:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The video is alarming, to say the least!

The cops really do not know w. t. f. they are doing (unless their intent IS to shoot black males first, then ask questions).

This is worse than M. Brown.



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TonyL222



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PostPosted: 11/27/14 1:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
The video is alarming, to say the least!

The cops really do not know w. t. f. they are doing (unless their intent IS to shoot black males first, then ask questions).

This is worse than M. Brown.


I can almost see why they might presume this was a real gun - except the police story doesn't seem to match with the video. Police said they told the kid to drop his weapon and he didn't follow the commands. Yet in the video the kid falls to the ground within a second of the police car stopping.


beknighted



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PostPosted: 11/27/14 10:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TonyL222 wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
The video is alarming, to say the least!

The cops really do not know w. t. f. they are doing (unless their intent IS to shoot black males first, then ask questions).

This is worse than M. Brown.


I can almost see why they might presume this was a real gun - except the police story doesn't seem to match with the video. Police said they told the kid to drop his weapon and he didn't follow the commands. Yet in the video the kid falls to the ground within a second of the police car stopping.


Apparently the official story is that they had the window down and shouted at him to hold his hands up or drop the toy gun as they were driving up. I don't really know how much difference that makes, given the apparent time sequence.


TonyL222



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PostPosted: 11/28/14 9:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:


Apparently the official story is that they had the window down and shouted at him to hold his hands up or drop the toy gun as they were driving up. I don't really know how much difference that makes, given the apparent time sequence.


http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/11/video_of_tamir_rice_shooting_b.html

Quote:
The police said two officers, responding to a 9-1-1 call, went to the park and saw Tamir take what they thought was a pistol from a table under a gazebo in the park and stuff it in his waistband. Police said that the boy was sitting with a group at the time.


Police also said that the officers told Tamir three times to raise his hands, and that when he reached for what they thought was a real pistol, he was shot.

The video, however, shows officers in a cruiser pull up within several feet of Rice, who was not with a group, but by himself underneath a gazebo. Immediately, even before the car stops rolling, the cruiser's passenger side door opens, an officer emerges and fires at Tamir, who drops to the ground.


Tamir was shot within 2 secs of the car's arrival.


beknighted



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PostPosted: 11/28/14 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TonyL222 wrote:
beknighted wrote:


Apparently the official story is that they had the window down and shouted at him to hold his hands up or drop the toy gun as they were driving up. I don't really know how much difference that makes, given the apparent time sequence.


http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/11/video_of_tamir_rice_shooting_b.html

Quote:
The police said two officers, responding to a 9-1-1 call, went to the park and saw Tamir take what they thought was a pistol from a table under a gazebo in the park and stuff it in his waistband. Police said that the boy was sitting with a group at the time.


Police also said that the officers told Tamir three times to raise his hands, and that when he reached for what they thought was a real pistol, he was shot.

The video, however, shows officers in a cruiser pull up within several feet of Rice, who was not with a group, but by himself underneath a gazebo. Immediately, even before the car stops rolling, the cruiser's passenger side door opens, an officer emerges and fires at Tamir, who drops to the ground.


Tamir was shot within 2 secs of the car's arrival.


Given the speed at which this happened, they must have started shouting at him when they were half a block away. (No, I don't think they did. I think they're, at best, remembering it in a way that would help them. Anyone who sees the video knows better.)


pilight



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PostPosted: 11/28/14 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In that short time, he might not have even realized they were shouting at him. If you're not doing anything wrong, why would you assume that?



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sambista



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PostPosted: 12/04/14 6:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"The Cleveland police officer who fatally shot a 12-year-old boy last month left the police force in nearby Independence, Ohio, after an internal assessment two years ago found that he had suffered a “dangerous loss of composure” during firearms training. The officer, Tim Loehmann, is now under investigation after shooting Tamir Rice within two seconds after the patrol car in which he was riding pulled up next to the boy, who had what turned out to be a fake gun. The previous assessment, first reported by The Cleveland Plain Dealer, found that Officer Loehmann “could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal.” Cleveland police officials said they had not reviewed Officer Loehmann’s Independence personnel file during their hiring process, but had been told by that city’s human resources director that there were no disciplinary actions against him or other incidents that they needed to be aware of."

nytimes.com



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hyperetic



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PostPosted: 12/04/14 10:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why didn't he get this level of patience?
http://www.10news.com/news/san-diego-police-respond-to-possibly-armed-man-in-mission-bay
beknighted



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PostPosted: 12/04/14 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I just read the Chris Rock interview in New York Magazine (great stuff - everybody should read it). In this context, I really was struck by his comment that all the racial progress the last several decades has been white people being nicer to black people. (Yes, he actually uses the word "nicer.")

The thing is, that's a really good analysis. And cases like this show that we have a long way to go.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 12/04/14 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cop Who Killed 12-Year-Old Described As Emotionally Unstable, "Dismal" With A Firearm

The police officer who shot and killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice is described as emotionally unstable and unable to properly use a firearm, according to documents from the city of Independence, Ohio, obtained by BuzzFeed News. The Cleveland Police Department confirmed to BuzzFeed News that during Officer Loehmann’s background check “Cleveland Police detectives did not review his Independence Police Department personnel file.”

Timothy Loehmann, 26, worked as a patrolman in Independence for less than one year prior to joining the Cleveland Police Department in 2014. He was ultimately asked to resign from his job or be fired, according to the documents. This contradicts the information he provided in his job application to the Cleveland Police Department two years later.

Loehmann shot Rice on Nov. 23, after reports that a boy was waving a gun — which later proved to be an airsoft toy pistol — in a public park.

The Independence documents offer a damning and troubling account of Loehmann’s emotional state and ability to follow directions.

In a November 2012 letter to the Independence Police Department’s human relations director recommending Loehmann’s termination, Independence Deputy Chief Jim Polak explained that for much of his time on the force, Loehmann “was distracted and weepy.” He could not “follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal.”



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sambista



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PostPosted: 01/09/15 7:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
The two Cleveland police officers involved in the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old boy who was carrying a pellet gun, stood by without rendering medical aid as the boy lay wounded next to their patrol car, a newly released extended surveillance video shows.

Then, about a minute and a half after one officer had shot Tamir, the other officer tackled the boy’s 14-year-old sister as she tried to reach her brother.


tackled her to the ground, fell on top of her from the force of his tackle, and then she was handcuffed and put in the police cruiser to sit and watch her brother bleed.

read on, about how long they stood by until an fbi agent assisted, and how many hours later tamir died. the link includes a 29-minute video.

nytimes.com



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hyperetic



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PostPosted: 01/09/15 9:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think that one reason why the problems with police persist is the lack of any valid transparency. The general public doesn't get to ask and to have answered, why from the people who actually did the deed. The secrecy breeds a pocket society whose only real allegiance is to itself. I think that with true transparency, a dialog about problems between both the police and the community they serve would help to alleviate some of the hearsay, mistrust, anger issues and police misconduct. I would suspect a lot of the secrecy is about preserving the reputation and semblance of authority of the police. Were everything made transparent they might lose respect in the affluent parts of the communities as well as the low income ones. The affluent ones actually have more of a possibility to be able to do something about the police if they deem them unworthy of the authority they've been given. (Friends in high places).
sambista



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PostPosted: 01/09/15 1:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hyperetic wrote:
The affluent ones actually have more of a possibility to be able to do something about the police if they deem them unworthy of the authority they've been given. (Friends in high places).


. . . and the wherewithal to litigate.



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beknighted



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PostPosted: 01/09/15 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
Quote:
The two Cleveland police officers involved in the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old boy who was carrying a pellet gun, stood by without rendering medical aid as the boy lay wounded next to their patrol car, a newly released extended surveillance video shows.

Then, about a minute and a half after one officer had shot Tamir, the other officer tackled the boy’s 14-year-old sister as she tried to reach her brother.


tackled her to the ground, fell on top of her from the force of his tackle, and then she was handcuffed and put in the police cruiser to sit and watch her brother bleed.

read on, about how long they stood by until an fbi agent assisted, and how many hours later tamir died. the link includes a 29-minute video.

nytimes.com


It was bad enough before this. It's almost unbearable now. Possibly Rice couldn't have been saved even if they had tried to give first aid, but this just looks like utter indifference to his life. (And, not that this is any consolation to anyone, but this really increases the odds that Rice's family will win any lawsuit they decide to file.)


sambista



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PostPosted: 01/09/15 3:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:
sambista wrote:
Quote:
The two Cleveland police officers involved in the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old boy who was carrying a pellet gun, stood by without rendering medical aid as the boy lay wounded next to their patrol car, a newly released extended surveillance video shows.

Then, about a minute and a half after one officer had shot Tamir, the other officer tackled the boy’s 14-year-old sister as she tried to reach her brother.


tackled her to the ground, fell on top of her from the force of his tackle, and then she was handcuffed and put in the police cruiser to sit and watch her brother bleed.

read on, about how long they stood by until an fbi agent assisted, and how many hours later tamir died. the link includes a 29-minute video.

nytimes.com


It was bad enough before this. It's almost unbearable now. Possibly Rice couldn't have been saved even if they had tried to give first aid, but this just looks like utter indifference to his life. (And, not that this is any consolation to anyone, but this really increases the odds that Rice's family will win any lawsuit they decide to file.)


indifference seems such an inadequate word at this point. i keep trying to picture them doing all the things they did if it were a white boy and a white girl. just wouldn't happen. the officer probably would've held the girl, embraced her maybe, consoled her maybe, while the other officer put pressure on the wound. what on this god's earth possessed that guy to handcuff the girl? what kind of threat could she possibly have been? it's so unbearably insane.

and you know what? if they can have databases tracking people with criminal activity, sex offenders and whatnot, they should have a database of law enforcement officers who were deemed unfit so they can't serve in that capacity anywhere. not new york city, not cleveland, not snatchback, arkansas.



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beknighted



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PostPosted: 01/09/15 5:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
beknighted wrote:
sambista wrote:
Quote:
The two Cleveland police officers involved in the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old boy who was carrying a pellet gun, stood by without rendering medical aid as the boy lay wounded next to their patrol car, a newly released extended surveillance video shows.

Then, about a minute and a half after one officer had shot Tamir, the other officer tackled the boy’s 14-year-old sister as she tried to reach her brother.


tackled her to the ground, fell on top of her from the force of his tackle, and then she was handcuffed and put in the police cruiser to sit and watch her brother bleed.

read on, about how long they stood by until an fbi agent assisted, and how many hours later tamir died. the link includes a 29-minute video.

nytimes.com


It was bad enough before this. It's almost unbearable now. Possibly Rice couldn't have been saved even if they had tried to give first aid, but this just looks like utter indifference to his life. (And, not that this is any consolation to anyone, but this really increases the odds that Rice's family will win any lawsuit they decide to file.)


indifference seems such an inadequate word at this point. i keep trying to picture them doing all the things they did if it were a white boy and a white girl. just wouldn't happen. the officer probably would've held the girl, embraced her maybe, consoled her maybe, while the other officer put pressure on the wound. what on this god's earth possessed that guy to handcuff the girl? what kind of threat could she possibly have been? it's so unbearably insane.


You're right. I'm just having a hard time coming up with words that are remotely adequate to describing this.


sambista



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PostPosted: 01/10/15 6:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:
You're right. I'm just having a hard time coming up with words that are remotely adequate to describing this.


i was commenting on the state of things, bek, not the quality of your word choice.



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beknighted



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PostPosted: 01/10/15 7:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
beknighted wrote:
You're right. I'm just having a hard time coming up with words that are remotely adequate to describing this.


i was commenting on the state of things, bek, not the quality of your word choice.


I understood. I was just saying that it's so awful it's hard to describe.


cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 01/10/15 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

woeful pitiful disgusting despicable disheartening disgraceful


nope. not even close.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 01/10/15 2:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Depraved indifference is right up there.



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PostPosted: 01/21/16 8:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Grand Jury in the Tamir Rice Case Did Not Take a Vote on Charges

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/01/20/the-grand-jury-in-the-tamir-rice-case-did-not-take-a-vote-on-charges

Quote:
After learning and confirming on Jan. 15 that there was no "no-bill notification" on file at the county clerk's office for the Tamir Rice grand jury proceedings, Scene formally requested the document officially showing the decision, however it was reached, and wherever said document might be. We were told that it didn't exist. Employees at both the clerk's and prosecutor's officers were unable to explain the lack of paperwork.

Tuesday, Scene spoke with Joe Frolik, the communications director for the Prosecutor's Office, who said no no-bill record exists because, "it's technically not a no-bill, because they didn't vote on charges."



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pilight



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PostPosted: 02/10/16 8:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2016/02/10/the-city-of-cleveland-filed-a-probate-court-creditors-claim-against-tamir-rices-estate-for-500

Quote:
The city filed a creditor's notice against the estate of Tamir Rice looking for a past due amount of $500.

What's that $500 for?

It's "owing for emergency medical services rendered as the decedent's last dying expense under Ohio Revised Code."



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