RebKell's Junkie Boards

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I don't think I've actually seen anyone here advocate that Laimbeer be fired. With no obvious replacement in sight, it wouldn't make sense. What we're arguing about is whether or not he's done a good job in the last two years. A lot of us say no. The record says no. To dredge up John Whisenant as a comparison is to set the bar really low. Whisenant was literally a laughingstock on this board during his two drafts. Even Voepel wrote something like the Liberty shouldn't have bothered to show up for the 2012 draft. I don't remember Whisenant getting much support at all around here.

Laimbeer has been in basketball a long time, and he's had a lot of success. There's reason to believe that if he buckles down, works hard, and makes some adjustments to his thinking, he could still succeed. I agree with Clay that Laimbeer returned to the league feeling over-confident. It was so easy the first time around, he came back thinking he could take the league by storm. Hell, he even had some of his peers convinced. I remember at least a couple of GMs in the annual poll picking the Liberty to win it all in 2013, and I think a couple picked them to win the East this year. In the end, there was a lot of talk, a lot expectations created, and the results ranged from dismal to disappointing.

The league has changed, and I'm not convinced that a grind it out defensive style works anymore. I remember those playoff series in 2007 and 2008 between NY and Detroit. They were ugly games with a lot of bad offense on both sides. The ultimate difference was Tweety Nolan's ability to get to the free throw line. I just don't think you can win that way anymore on a regular basis. NY has a roster full of people who can't shoot because Laimbeer favors the physical defensive types over "soft" skilled players. This is a roster he put together, and there's no hiding from it. The question is whether Laimbeer can modify his style of basketball, find a more effective way to teach skills to bad offensive players or be more resourceful in his discovery of low profile talent. Look at Indiana. They haven't had a high draft pick in a decade, but they always seem to find people off the scrap heap. It can be done. It's not easy, but that's the point. That's why winning is an accomplishment. That's why you receive the adulation. That's why you get paid the big bucks.

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You can always do something else.

[NYL_WNBA_FAN]

If you find that once in a lifetime player that certainly helps. That's pretty much what Catchings is, one of the very few players capable of carrying an entire team on her back in all facets of the game, and Douglas asking to be traded to Indiana helped.

Perhaps Charles becomes that player for NY once the other pieces are in place. I think Laimbeer counted too much on Carson, who he claimed had practiced a ton of 3 point shots, for 3 point shooting. He also couldn't have expected that Cappie would shoot in the 15% neighborhood from 3 in the second half of the season. Not sure what three point shooter was available who could have helped the team this season, unless you include Mitchell, who at this point can't guard most of the point guards in the league. Maggie Lucas? She looked good...when she played against NY.

To me, the only team that experienced more significant injury issues than NY was Chicago, so I think under the circumstances that just was what it was. But I agree there's no room for excuses next year. There are a lot of players he has added. It's his job to make sure they develop and that includes monitoring their off-season progress and working with any players who choose not to go overseas...if there are any. And figuring out a way to add some offense, especially in the event that Cappie's issues are going to be chronic. Whether it's free agency, moving the 2016 first rounder or whatever. I'm game for moving the pick...but only if it contributes toward us having 5 scoring threats on the court at the same time so that there is minimal to zero risk of missing the playoffs and having that become a lottery pick.

Just to be clear, I'd have given Pokey a pass also even if Chicago had lost to Atlanta...or hadn't made the playoffs at all.

I expect Bill to be active and take some chances in the off-season. His job has to be at stake, and I don't see him standing pat with this group unless he has zero options elsewhere. And he has often found ways to trade for key vets before, by trading players with "upside" who fizzled later. Perhaps he can pull something off again.

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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.

[Randy]

NY only missed the playoffs by a tie breaker with the Sky. They might have easily made it. Like the Sky, they had Atlanta's number this year and may well have advanced to round 2. (And like the Sky, they couldn't beat Indy this year.)

[ClayK]

I'm a Whisenant supporter ... look at those drafts and point out who else he should have picked. And as I recall, New York made the playoffs with John ... and he did beat Laimbeer in the WNBA Finals.

That said, Laimbeer did have bad luck this year with injuries, and barely missed the playoffs. I think what happened at the end of the season, though, with some ugly losses, painted a darker picture than maybe the overall season deserved.

Then again, maybe not ...

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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

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[Martini Man]

Anyone who thinks Bill did a good job in NY the past two years is dilusional. Dilusional. What positive thing has he done for NY? Name ONE thing. He should have been fired mid season.

Last year he brings in Cheryl Ford when we all knew she wasn't capable. Mistake 1. He drafted Kelley Cain at #7 I believe. Moronic decision. Mistake #2. He, like Whizenant, doesn't know how to effectively use Pondexter. Mistake #3. He gets rid of Mitchell who maybe isn't the best player in the world but she was good enough to keep and play behind Cruz. Mistake #4. He traded Bone, Thomas, and next years lottery pick for a player who didn't make any difference improving last years record. Mistake #5. He tried to make the Liberty into a senior citizen complex for old Shock players. How'd that go for him? Mistake #6. He had absolutely no influence on getting Tina Charles. She wanted to play in NY. Didn't matter who the head coach was. He had NOTHING to do with that what so ever. He completely wasted any chances of his team getting better in the drafts by giving up lottery picks two years in a row. Mistake #7. He put together a terrible roster. The only smart thing I've seen him do since becoming the head honcho in NY is getting rid of Kara Braxton. But then again, it took him too long to even do that. Mistake #8. I've never once seen him get fired up during a game like his old Detroit days. No intensity or passion from him or his players. His team missed the playoffs two years in a row. Which is, I believe, the only time the team has missed the playoffs two years in a row. Just because the guy win three championships with Detroit doesn't make him a good head coach or GM. he's actually pretty terrible at both jobs. The reason he won three championships in Detroit was more due to the fact that he had Cheryl Reeve there. There is only one constant when looking at former Detroit Shock coaches who have championships. Cheryl Reeve. Reeve is a smart coach who knows the X's and O's and she's a great motivator. I've never seen any of that with Bill.

And before you rebkell nut jobs start spouting off that my Sun team and coach ain't doing much better, I'm aware of that but I'm not talking about the Sun's issues. I'm talking about the mess that is the New York Liberty.

Bill isn't capable of turning the Liberty into a championship calibre team. He's not off to a good start either. His team won't be any better next year. There's nothing coming to help. He's got no players aside from Charles that has any decent trade value. No lottery picks again this year. And because of Bill, and his stupid decisions, every other team in the east leap Frogged ahead of him in the talent department. Aside from Charles, who only went to NY because it's her home city, no other big time players are going to want to sign with him next year. Who wants to join a team that is in such a mess, has little to no playoff / championship hope etc. The only thing that could save them is missing the playoffs again next year (which they 99.9% chance they will) and hope to win the #1 draft pick (which they probably won't) and draft Beanna Stewart. And as stupid as Bill Laimbeer is, even he can't be THAT stupid to squander another first round draft pick next season and lose out on her. But it WOULD fit his profile as of late.

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Cheers Mate!!

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[ClayK]

More than a few people missed on Hayes, which I agree was a mistake.

But I don't see how Laimbeer is that big a step up over Whisenant. Sure, Whisenant's defensive system isn't as exciting, in a way, as Laimbeer's emphasis on physicality, and Whiz didn't exactly run an uptempo offense, but still, I think he would have done just as well with this year's Liberty.

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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

[myrtle]

[ClayK]

And Whisenant too emphasized defense, though in a different way than Laimbeer ... and didn't adjust quite quickly enough.

Also, the switch to a 24-second clock changed things, definitely for the better. It's harder to slow the game down, and more possessions means the team with more offensive talent has more chances to turn that advantage into a win.

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Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā

[auntie]

Bill will not be fired yet because of his relationship with Allan Houston who seems to taking care of the Liberty for Dolan.

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A woman's place is in the paint--Another artist for Liberty.