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pilight
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 Posted: 04/06/14 5:55 pm ::: |
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| There are certainly people with more on their resumes than Tyler Summitt. That's not the same as being more qualified, however. Dawn Staley had never coached a day in her life when she took over Temple. I don't recall anyone saying she wasn't qualified.
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bullsky
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purduefanatic
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| Posted: 04/07/14 8:49 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| There are certainly people with more on their resumes than Tyler Summitt. That's not the same as being more qualified, however. Dawn Staley had never coached a day in her life when she took over Temple. I don't recall anyone saying she wasn't qualified. |
Are you really comparing what a Dawn Staley resume would look like next to Tyler Summitt prior to either getting a head coaching position?
And if I recall, there was a complaining about Staley when she got hired.
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/07/14 9:07 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| There are certainly people with more on their resumes than Tyler Summitt. That's not the same as being more qualified, however. Dawn Staley had never coached a day in her life when she took over Temple. I don't recall anyone saying she wasn't qualified. |
Are you really comparing what a Dawn Staley resume would look like next to Tyler Summitt prior to either getting a head coaching position?
And if I recall, there was a complaining about Staley when she got hired. |
Dawn Staley's coaching resume was blank when she took over at Temple. Summitt would seem to have the edge there.
Let's go another direction. Tyler Summitt has as much coaching experience as Kevin Ollie did when he took over the UConn men's program. Not many Husky fans complaining about that one today.
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summertime blues
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| Posted: 04/07/14 9:16 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| There are certainly people with more on their resumes than Tyler Summitt. That's not the same as being more qualified, however. Dawn Staley had never coached a day in her life when she took over Temple. I don't recall anyone saying she wasn't qualified. |
Are you really comparing what a Dawn Staley resume would look like next to Tyler Summitt prior to either getting a head coaching position?
And if I recall, there was a complaining about Staley when she got hired. |
I wasn't on this board then, but I heard it elsewhere. And yeah, same ol', same ol'. Not to mention the sniping about Sheryl Swoopes. It's just a little snottier about Tyler because of his name. People think he rode his mom's coattails into the job, which could not be farther from the truth, but of course you'll never convince those who haven't followed him since he was just a kid and know how he's prepared himself. I suggest y'all get over it and just watch what he does for the next few years. You might be pleasantly surprised.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/07/14 9:24 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
Valid? If he won the National Championship in his first year, that would most certainly INvalidate those complaints. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one, but....ya. NC = Complaints Be Gone. |
No it wouldn't. Not at all. Whether it is a rational choice has to be judged based on the information and choices available at the time the choice was made.
That blind luck produces a better-than-anyone-could-possibly-have-anticipated result does not transform an irrational decision into a rational one.
Would people forget about the irrationality of the choice? Certainly. Does it make it any less irrational at the time it was made? Certainly not.
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beknighted
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| Posted: 04/07/14 9:31 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Youth Coach wrote: |
Of course, knowing the prevailing attitudes here on Rebkell at times, Tyler Summitt's Lady Techsters could go undefeated and win the title next season and there'd still be Rebkellians here complaining that he got hired at all. |
And those complaints would remain completely valid.
Whether or not he succeeds has zero to do with the inescapable reality that his resume didn't merit getting hired, that there were many more qualified choices, and that he got hired because of his name.
So maybe blind luck rules in this instance. Nothing that happens hereafter changes the merits of the decision to hire him. It's really beyond cavil. |
Valid? If he won the National Championship in his first year, that would most certainly INvalidate those complaints. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one, but....ya. NC = Complaints Be Gone. |
If the complaints were that he couldn't handle the job, then going undefeated would invalidate the complaints. The complaints people are making now are different, though - they're that other coaches who were more qualified were passed over to hire him. I don't know enough to know if that's true (although it seems to me that a package deal with DeMoss would change that analysis significantly), but the validity or invalidity of that particular complaint would be unaffected by the results.
Put differently, the odds of winning the lottery (which somehow seems like an apt comparison given the example) don't change just because you win.
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PUmatty
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| Posted: 04/07/14 9:33 am ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| Not mad at all. I simply think Matty is overdoing the PC. |
If that is what you got from my comment, either I did a very job making my point, or you are doing a very bad job of hearing what I am saying.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/07/14 9:39 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
Dawn Staley's coaching resume was blank when she took over at Temple. Summitt would seem to have the edge there.
Let's go another direction. Tyler Summitt has as much coaching experience as Kevin Ollie did when he took over the UConn men's program. Not many Husky fans complaining about that one today. |
Sure but coaching experience isn't the only experience that's relevant to becoming a coach. Ollie only had two years as an assistant, but he had thirteen years experience of playing in the NBA. Staley played ten years of professional ball. Both were stars in college, and Staley played on three gold medal winning US Olympic teams.
If you took Summitt's resume and added in ten years of professional basketball playing experience, I doubt many people would be questioning the hiring choice. But actually his playing experience consists of a total of six minutes and one three point basket.
A lot of former players become coaches when their playing days are over. The problem here is that Summitt has neither coaching nor playing experience. It's not simply the absence of serious coaching experience, it's that his resume is nearly blank.
I hope you're not seriously suggesting that Summitt is similarly situated to either Ollie or Staley at the time they were hired.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 04/07/14 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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purduefanatic
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| Posted: 04/07/14 9:45 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
Dawn Staley's coaching resume was blank when she took over at Temple. Summitt would seem to have the edge there.
Let's go another direction. Tyler Summitt has as much coaching experience as Kevin Ollie did when he took over the UConn men's program. Not many Husky fans complaining about that one today. |
Sure but coaching experience isn't the only experience that's relevant to becoming a coach. Ollie only had two years as an assistant, but he had thirteen years experience of playing in the NBA. Staley played ten years of professional ball. Both were stars in college, and Staley played on three gold medal winning US Olympic teams.
If you took Summitt's resume and added in ten years of professional basketball playing experience, I doubt many people would be questioning the hiring choice. But actually his playing experience consists of a total of six minutes and one three point basket.
A lot of former players become coaches when their playing days are over. The problem here is that Summitt has neither coaching nor playing experience. It's not simply the absence of serious coaching experience, it's that his resume is nearly blank.
I hope you're not seriously suggesting that Summitt is similarly situated to either Ollie or Staley at the time they were hired. |
Thank you...exactly what I was implying about the comparison between Summitt/Staley.
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/07/14 9:56 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
Dawn Staley's coaching resume was blank when she took over at Temple. Summitt would seem to have the edge there.
Let's go another direction. Tyler Summitt has as much coaching experience as Kevin Ollie did when he took over the UConn men's program. Not many Husky fans complaining about that one today. |
Sure but coaching experience isn't the only experience that's relevant to becoming a coach. Ollie only had two years as an assistant, but he had thirteen years experience of playing in the NBA. Staley played ten years of professional ball. Both were stars in college, and Staley played on three gold medal winning US Olympic teams.
If you took Summitt's resume and added in ten years of professional basketball playing experience, I doubt many people would be questioning the hiring choice. But actually his playing experience consists of a total of six minutes and one three point basket.
A lot of former players become coaches when their playing days are over. The problem here is that Summitt has neither coaching nor playing experience. It's not simply the absence of serious coaching experience, it's that his resume is nearly blank.
I hope you're not seriously suggesting that Summitt is similarly situated to either Ollie or Staley at the time they were hired. |
You're suggesting that playing professionally makes someone a better college coach, or at least better qualified to be a college coach. What evidence do you have to support this supposition?
Mike Krzyzewski never played professionally and had only one season as an assistant before getting the head coaching job at Army at the ripe old age of 28. He turned out OK. There's more to being the right person for a job than having the longest resume.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/07/14 10:11 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
Dawn Staley's coaching resume was blank when she took over at Temple. Summitt would seem to have the edge there.
Let's go another direction. Tyler Summitt has as much coaching experience as Kevin Ollie did when he took over the UConn men's program. Not many Husky fans complaining about that one today. |
Sure but coaching experience isn't the only experience that's relevant to becoming a coach. Ollie only had two years as an assistant, but he had thirteen years experience of playing in the NBA. Staley played ten years of professional ball. Both were stars in college, and Staley played on three gold medal winning US Olympic teams.
If you took Summitt's resume and added in ten years of professional basketball playing experience, I doubt many people would be questioning the hiring choice. But actually his playing experience consists of a total of six minutes and one three point basket.
A lot of former players become coaches when their playing days are over. The problem here is that Summitt has neither coaching nor playing experience. It's not simply the absence of serious coaching experience, it's that his resume is nearly blank.
I hope you're not seriously suggesting that Summitt is similarly situated to either Ollie or Staley at the time they were hired. |
You're suggesting that playing professionally makes someone a better college coach, or at least better qualified to be a college coach. What evidence do you have to support this supposition?
Mike Krzyzewski never played professionally and had only one season as an assistant before getting the head coaching job at Army at the ripe old age of 28. He turned out OK. There's more to being the right person for a job than having the longest resume. |
Krzyzewski is certainly an unusual case. But his hiring by West Point had as much to do with his being a West Point grad and having played and worked for famous Army coach Knight as anything else He also had spent several years in the military coaching service basketball teams and two years as head coach at the U.S. Military Academy Prep School at Fort Belvoir. He still had far more experience than Summitt, and he wasn't 23 years old. Plus he had been captain of a very successful West Point basketball team so he had real playing experience. Those strong Army and West Point ties softened the criticism.
Nobody said playing pro makes someone a better coach. But years of high level playing experience in college and the pros is indisputably a major qualification and can be a substitute for coaching experience. A lot of former players get hired as coaches. As I said quite clearly. Summitt's problem isn't that he doesn't have playing experience. It's that his resume is essentially blank. He has neither playing nor coaching experience commensurate to the job for which he's being hired. There's only one thing on his resume that led to his job offer, and that's his name. Anyone with a different name with his resume would have been laughed at had they applied.
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hyperetic
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| Posted: 04/07/14 10:21 am ::: |
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| My first experience with women's collegiate basketball was watching the Lady Techsters whoop the snot out of some team in the NCAAs. They looked unstoppable. I'd like to see them in the mix again. If the AD at LTech think lil Summit can do it well, its their call. The prevailing opinion is that teams should always go for experience. For good reason. Inexperience often means minimal chance of success. However, its not always the case. Also, if everybody wants experience, how do new coaches get experience? Yeah I can hear you thinking "but not at the top levels of WCBB"! Fair enough but who gets forced to take the noobie? As competitive as sports have become at any level, fewer teams are willing to take chances on inexperience. Unless it your child's team that you started. How do they get their foot in the door. In a perfect world, coaches would rise up through the ranks, ply their trade, earn that vaunted experience. But this is the real world. Some folks get chances that others don't. The important thing is what they do with that chance. Its theirs to succeed or fail with. Debate away. In the end, it is what it is. Tyler Summitt is Louisiana Tech's women's basketball head coach until his contract runs out or some catastrophic issue happens. |
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/07/14 12:27 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Nobody said playing pro makes someone a better coach. But years of high level playing experience in college and the pros is indisputably a major qualification and can be a substitute for coaching experience. A lot of former players get hired as coaches. |
But are they good hires? La Tech just went down that road with a former player. It didn't work. Maybe they're ahead of the game in discounting pro playing experience.
| Quote: |
| As I said quite clearly. Summitt's problem isn't that he doesn't have playing experience. It's that his resume is essentially blank. He has neither playing nor coaching experience commensurate to the job for which he's being hired. There's only one thing on his resume that led to his job offer, and that's his name. Anyone with a different name with his resume would have been laughed at had they applied. |
Like I said before, there's more to being the right person for the job than having the longest resume.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/07/14 12:32 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
Like I said before, there's more to being the right person for the job than having the longest resume. |
If qualifications and experience don't matter, then why not just have a lottery? Buy a Big Mac and get a chance at becoming the next head coach.
Obviously that would be ridiculous, right?
So explain what it is that makes this a good hire?
Lets see. It's not playing experience 'cause there isn't any. It's not coaching experience, 'cause there's very little, and certainly less than is typically considered necessary. So it must be . . . . ??????????????????
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/07/14 12:38 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Nobody said playing pro makes someone a better coach. But years of high level playing experience in college and the pros is indisputably a major qualification and can be a substitute for coaching experience. A lot of former players get hired as coaches. |
But are they good hires? La Tech just went down that road with a former player. It didn't work. Maybe they're ahead of the game in discounting pro playing experience.
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The reality is most coaches fail. So it's really easy to pick any set of previous qualifications and find someone who fell flat on their face.
All you can do is make the best and most informed choice you can make, but there are come characteristics that tend to be better predictors of future success than others. It's not any different than hiring for any other professional or management position. Yes, people who didn't have the typical resume often succeed, and people with sterling resumes often fail. But for any job there's still a set of qualifications that for an employer provide a better basis for predicting that an individual will be successful,and while employers may weigh different factors differently, most sensible employers try to find the person who provides the best chance of success.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 04/07/14 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/07/14 12:39 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
Like I said before, there's more to being the right person for the job than having the longest resume. |
If qualifications and experience don't matter, then why not just have a lottery? Buy a Big Mac and get a chance at becoming the next head coach.
Obviously that would be ridiculous, right?
So explain what it is that makes this a good hire?
Lets see. It's not playing experience 'cause there isn't any. It's not coaching experience, 'cause there's very little, and certainly less than is typically considered necessary. So it must be . . . . ?????????????????? |
There's a reason employers do interviews rather than just hiring based on paper qualifications.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/07/14 12:41 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
Like I said before, there's more to being the right person for the job than having the longest resume. |
If qualifications and experience don't matter, then why not just have a lottery? Buy a Big Mac and get a chance at becoming the next head coach.
Obviously that would be ridiculous, right?
So explain what it is that makes this a good hire?
Lets see. It's not playing experience 'cause there isn't any. It's not coaching experience, 'cause there's very little, and certainly less than is typically considered necessary. So it must be . . . . ?????????????????? |
There's a reason employers do interviews rather than just hiring based on paper qualifications. |
And no rational employer hires somebody ONLY because of the interview. Indeed, generally if you don't have an acceptable resume, you won't get an interview. It's not a sole basis for hiring, it's one piece of the package.
if the interview was all that mattered, you could round up 50 people randomly off the street, interview them, and pick the one you liked personally the best.
I notice you didn't explain what makes this a good hire.
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/07/14 12:45 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Nobody said playing pro makes someone a better coach. But years of high level playing experience in college and the pros is indisputably a major qualification and can be a substitute for coaching experience. A lot of former players get hired as coaches. |
But are they good hires? La Tech just went down that road with a former player. It didn't work. Maybe they're ahead of the game in discounting pro playing experience.
|
The reality is most coaches fail. So it's really easy to pick any set of previous qualifications and find someone who fell flat on their face.
All you can do is make the best and most informed choice you can make, but there are come characteristics that tend to be better predictors of future success than others. It's not any different than hiring for any other professional or management position. Yes, people who didn't have the typical resume often succeed, and people with sterling resumes often fail. But for any job there's still a set of qualifications that for an employer provide a better basis for predicting that an individual will be successful,and while employers may weigh different factors differently, most sensible employers try to find the person who provides the best chance of success. |
That doesn't answer the question of whether pro playing experience is a predictor of future success. Has anyone studied this? The women's tournament had five teams out of 64 coached by former WNBA or NBA players. None got past the S16.
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pilight
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| Posted: 04/07/14 12:46 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| I notice you didn't explain what makes this a good hire. |
I don't know that it is. No one will know until we see the results. If he wins, then it was a good hire.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 04/07/14 1:09 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
That doesn't answer the question of whether pro playing experience is a predictor of future success. Has anyone studied this? The women's tournament had five teams out of 64 coached by former WNBA or NBA players. None got past the S16. |
Actually, McGraw played professionally briefly.
If you're going to start using that as a criterion, you could also say that no team with a coach younger than age 42 got past the S16.
What was the youngest age of any coach that made the tournament?
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HistoryWomensBasketball
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| Posted: 04/07/14 2:34 pm ::: |
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Maybe or maybe not he will be successful. yet here is one that did ok.
Cathy Rush. 2 years playing at a small time college. Then quit and went into gymnastics
Coached in high school for a little while full time teacher was on sabbatical.
No professional
Goes and becomes coach at age of 22 in a small college
Over next 6 years her teams record is 147-15. 6 final 4s. 3 national championships. Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame inductee in 2008. Her teams will be only the 2nd women's basketball team ever inducted following the All American Red Heads.
The game has changed since the AIAW days. yet what she did for that time was great. No doubt there were others with much better resumes and experience.
As I said I dont see Tyler doing anything like that yet when teamed up with DeMoss, I thinkIts worth the try if they feel players will buy into it. |
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