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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63831
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Posted: 11/25/13 4:27 pm ::: |
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noleman wrote: |
Shades wrote: |
noleman wrote: |
Jeff Walz showed some love for Natasha howard (FSU) after their game today.
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"Natasha Howard fouled out and that's a big difference. She is a special player. There's no doubt that she will be a top five pick in the draft in April or May. She has 13 points and 14 boards and nine of them are offensive. She's something else. I wasn't pleased with our mental approach. |
So did S.Schimmel...
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In overtime they did not have Natasha Howard, and it benefited us." |
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I think Walz is just looking for reasons his Top 5 team played so poorly. I'll track her stats, but there's nothing that screams "lottery" to me. Over Dolson or Gray? |
He said it a few days b4 the game as well (I didnt say I agreed, although I do think she goes top10).
If you base her stock just off stats then no. She has to do a better job of staying out of foul trouble to average more than 24mins and cut down on To's. Hopefully FSU has a good season and she can prove herself throughout the year.
Over Dolson-Yes, Gray- Probably Not. |
Howard would have to have a heluva season to get drafted ahead of Dolson.
Not only is Dolson in the best club for producing WNBA players, she's going up against the best competition and still producing. She's versatile: 31 assists in 7 games compared to Howard's 2 in 4 games. She can extend the defense. In my mind, it's not even close. At this point, I don't see Dolson dropping below #6, and Howard's not cracking that territory.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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#Occasionalwnbafan
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 1380
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Posted: 11/25/13 4:29 pm ::: |
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Natasha Howard could be a good fit for the Silver stars. |
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6813
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Posted: 11/25/13 5:31 pm ::: |
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I think Howard is someone to watch this season in the sense that after Ogwumike, and Thomas (if she is considered a post), and Dolson there is no clear next best post option. I haven't seen that much of her but she looks like a WNBA player to me.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11166
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Posted: 11/26/13 11:16 am ::: |
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Howard is a WNBA player if she can play the four. She's not at Dolson's level, especially considering how good a passer Dolson is -- a post who can move the ball is incredibly valuable as it stretches the defense in a lot of ways.
And I haven't been that excited about Liston, but if she can make 43% of her threes at the WNBA level, she'll find a home, quickness deficit or not.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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mavcarter #NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 5935 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 11/26/13 4:31 pm ::: |
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rykhala wrote: |
Stefanie Dolson Connecticut Sun |
And to harp on this a little bit more, why would you take a player who has the ceiling of role player #2?_________________
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Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63831
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Posted: 11/26/13 5:41 pm ::: |
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mavcarter wrote: |
rykhala wrote: |
Stefanie Dolson Connecticut Sun |
And to harp on this a little bit more, why would you take a player who has the ceiling of role player #2? |
I don't think I'd pick her #2 either, but why is role player her ceiling?
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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#Occasionalwnbafan
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 1380
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Posted: 11/26/13 5:53 pm ::: |
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I've been hot and cold on Dolson, but her stock has to be at an all time high right now. She's a true 6'5 and she played at uconn, if she is taken by the stars I give her 2 seasons before she's starting over Appel. |
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mavcarter #NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 5935 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 11/26/13 6:09 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
mavcarter wrote: |
rykhala wrote: |
Stefanie Dolson Connecticut Sun |
And to harp on this a little bit more, why would you take a player who has the ceiling of role player #2? |
I don't think I'd pick her #2 either, but why is role player her ceiling? |
Before this season she had a career average of 11.4 PPG. While this may not be a good indicator of how good she will ultimately turn out, players that weren't scorers in college have a bit of a hard time becoming good or even very good.
The school she attends will probably play a bigger role in where she gets drafted as opposed to on the court play.
She has a good IQ, can pass, and like you said can stretch the defense. She seems like a nice pick anywhere from #6-12, but taking her in the lottery might be a bit of stretch. Especially top 2._________________
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Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66993 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 11/26/13 6:25 pm ::: |
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#Occasionalwnbafan wrote: |
She's a true 6'5 and she played at uconn, if she is taken by the stars I give her 2 seasons before she's starting over Appel. |
Right, because 6'5 UConn players have always turned into such big stars...
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63831
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mavcarter #NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 5935 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 11/26/13 8:56 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Do you consider McCarville a role player, even though she was the starting center for a WNBA Championship team? |
Yes, I do. There's nothing wrong with being a McCarville type player, but I don't know why a GM would want that in the lottery unless they have an established front court.
Shades wrote: |
She was able to become the #1 pick on a career 14.6 ppg, and she was a little more a focus of the offense than Dolson needs to be. |
2005 was a very weak draft. I'm not as high on this year's as others but I think it's better._________________
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Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63831
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Posted: 11/26/13 9:13 pm ::: |
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mavcarter wrote: |
2005 was a very weak draft. I'm not as high on this year's as others but I think it's better. |
Wasn't my fav year, but some steady WNBA players have come out of 2005.
2. Tan White
5. Sancho Lyttle
6. Temeka Johnson
7. Kara Braxton
12. Tanisha Wright
15. Roneeka Hodges
21. Erin Phillips
27. Catherine Kraayeveld
9 players still in the league after 9 years.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66993 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 11/26/13 10:05 pm ::: |
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mavcarter wrote: |
2005 was a very weak draft. |
2005 was light on star power but it was very deep.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63831
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012 Posts: 4241 Location: Minnesota
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Shades
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012 Posts: 4241 Location: Minnesota
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Shades
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mavcarter #NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010 Posts: 5935 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 11/27/13 12:36 am ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
mavcarter wrote: |
2005 was a very weak draft. |
2005 was light on star power but it was very deep. |
You're right, very weak was a poor choice of words._________________
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Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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SpaceJunkie
Joined: 10 Sep 2012 Posts: 4241 Location: Minnesota
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 11/29/13 6:14 pm ::: |
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Every year (almost) someone falls below the first round and outshines a lot of players drafter ahead of her:
2013 - Bentley
2012 - Hayes and R. Williams
2011 - Danielle Adams
2010 - Hightower
2009 - ?
2008 - Mitchell
So rather than trying to figure out the draft order, who will be the player that falls too far in the 2014 draft? Who will be Ms. Overlooked 2014?
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32339
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Posted: 11/29/13 8:17 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
Every year (almost) someone falls below the first round and outshines a lot of players drafter ahead of her:
2013 - Bentley
2012 - Hayes and R. Williams
2011 - Danielle Adams
2010 - Hightower
2009 - ?
2008 - Mitchell
So rather than trying to figure out the draft order, who will be the player that falls too far in the 2014 draft? Who will be Ms. Overlooked 2014? |
Don't forget Angel Goodrich this year too!
It's really hard to tell how a SG will make the transition, so it could be someone like Ellenberg, Schimmel, Fussell, or Simmons...or maybe someone like Coley or Newsome for real underdogs. I think it will be difficult to predict how any of them will actually do...and it also depends on where they go. Three or four of them will be total washouts, but which one(s) will succeed. I kind of like Ellenberg but it's very, very hard to tell...
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6813
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Posted: 11/30/13 12:50 am ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
Every year (almost) someone falls below the first round and outshines a lot of players drafter ahead of her:
2013 - Bentley
2012 - Hayes and R. Williams
2011 - Danielle Adams
2010 - Hightower
2009 - ?
2008 - Mitchell
So rather than trying to figure out the draft order, who will be the player that falls too far in the 2014 draft? Who will be Ms. Overlooked 2014? |
I'm not very familiar with these players but I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say Bias or Foggie. (Ellenberg would be my other guess, but Myrtle already threw it out there and I've seen her described to often by others as "undersized" and "volume scorer" to feel confident about that prediction, though I like her.)
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 11/30/13 8:22 am ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
Randy wrote: |
Every year (almost) someone falls below the first round and outshines a lot of players drafter ahead of her:
2013 - Bentley
2012 - Hayes and R. Williams
2011 - Danielle Adams
2010 - Hightower
2009 - ?
2008 - Mitchell
So rather than trying to figure out the draft order, who will be the player that falls too far in the 2014 draft? Who will be Ms. Overlooked 2014? |
Don't forget Angel Goodrich this year too!
It's really hard to tell how a SG will make the transition, so it could be someone like Ellenberg, Schimmel, Fussell, or Simmons...or maybe someone like Coley or Newsome for real underdogs. I think it will be difficult to predict how any of them will actually do...and it also depends on where they go. Three or four of them will be total washouts, but which one(s) will succeed. I kind of like Ellenberg but it's very, very hard to tell... |
Yes - Angel definitely should have been on the list!!
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 11/30/13 10:51 am ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
myrtle wrote: |
Randy wrote: |
Every year (almost) someone falls below the first round and outshines a lot of players drafter ahead of her:
2013 - Bentley
2012 - Hayes and R. Williams
2011 - Danielle Adams
2010 - Hightower
2009 - ?
2008 - Mitchell
So rather than trying to figure out the draft order, who will be the player that falls too far in the 2014 draft? Who will be Ms. Overlooked 2014? |
Don't forget Angel Goodrich this year too!
It's really hard to tell how a SG will make the transition, so it could be someone like Ellenberg, Schimmel, Fussell, or Simmons...or maybe someone like Coley or Newsome for real underdogs. I think it will be difficult to predict how any of them will actually do...and it also depends on where they go. Three or four of them will be total washouts, but which one(s) will succeed. I kind of like Ellenberg but it's very, very hard to tell... |
Yes - Angel definitely should have been on the list!! |
It's interesting because the majority of people on this board had Goodrich in the 1st round for most of the year, and then she slipped to the 2nd round right before the draft. Only the GM's had Goodrich as a 3rd rounder.
I agree that the SG's are the hardest to evaluate -- especially the smaller ones. I don't really know the other players that well, but I've seen a lot of Schimmel and Simmons throughout their careers. They're streaky boom or bust players. They can look unstoppable when they're on or be a liability when they're off. I think if you can get a streaky player to adjust to coming off the bench, they can be very valuable. If they're having an off-night, you sit them back down. If they're on, it's like having an All-Star come off your bench -- Riquana Williams is the perfect example. However, the adjustment to playing off the bench is the hardest thing to do for young players who are used to being stars.
Maggie Lucas and Tricia Liston will also be interesting to watch. Is Lucas big enough or quick enough? Does she have enough diversity to her game? Is Liston athletic enough? You never know how GM's are going to weigh athletic ability vs. skill. Personally, Liston is beginning to grow on me. I used to look at that chunky body and the clumsy way that she moves and I'd think to myself, "No way!" But watching her closely, Liston isn't as slow as she looks. And you have to love a great outside shooter who doesn't mind contact and likes taking it to the hoop.
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