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Should the Redskins change their name?
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justintyme



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PostPosted: 05/02/13 3:23 pm    ::: Should the Redskins change their name? Reply Reply with quote

Accorging to an AP Poll 79% say no.

Quote:
A new Associated Press-GfK poll shows that nationally, "Redskins" still enjoys widespread support.

Nearly four in five Americans don't think the team should change its name, the survey found. Only 11 percent think it should be changed, while 8 percent weren't sure and 2 percent didn't answer.


Personally, I don't understand the point of this poll. Why ask the majority if they find the word offensive. What non-Native Americans think is irrelevant. This would be like polling the Antebellum South and asking white folks if they found the n-word offensive. Poll Native Americans and ask them if they find the word offensive, and if they do, fucking change it.

Even if every Native American in the country found it offensive that would only factor into 1% of a national sample. Great job with your statistics AP. Rolling Eyes



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Hawkeye



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PostPosted: 05/02/13 3:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

The Redskins have had their name for 80 years. Get your panties out of a wad, the name is fine. And 'Redtails'? Yeah--because that has SO much to do with Washington DC.


pilight



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PostPosted: 05/02/13 4:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Most of the complaints about Native American team names are nonsensical. However, Redskins is over the line and should be changed.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 05/02/13 4:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

The Redskins have had their name for 80 years. Get your panties out of a wad, the name is fine. And 'Redtails'? Yeah--because that has SO much to do with Washington DC.


Wait, so it's okay to use an offensive term because they've had their name for so many years?

If, as the guy from the Pawnee said, Native Americans see the word "redskin" the same way an African-American sees the n-word, you think the name is "fine"? There is not a single group in the US which was treated worse than them--and that includes an entire race we enslaved.

We committed genocide. It would be like the Germans naming their national soccer team a name the Jews found offensive.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 05/02/13 4:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Most of the complaints about Native American team names are nonsensical. However, Redskins is over the line and should be changed.


Yeah, I agree. Though I think those that name themselves after Native Americans should do what Florida State did and work with the local tribe to use their team to promote the culture of their namesake. It makes for an enriching experience and keeps away from the dumb cliches and stereotypes.



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beknighted



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PostPosted: 05/02/13 4:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Redtails" is a nonsensical name, and I think that suggesting it actually hurts the cause.

Were it up to me, I would change the name, but I don't get to decide.


mercfan3



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PostPosted: 05/02/13 5:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Native Americans find the name offensive, and find redskins to be a slur (which I expect they do.) Than change the damn name.

We can forget tradition for the sake of being decent human beings.



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norwester



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PostPosted: 05/03/13 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm of the opinion that "Redskin" is over the line, since I understand it as a pejorative term in every other usage. Using specific tribe/nation names I don't ncecessarily have a problem with.



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Martini Man



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PostPosted: 05/03/13 11:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What's their logo?

Should they also change the slang name for footballs? Pigskin might be offensive to certain swines.

If I were a Native American I honestly wouldn't care about the name. It wouldn't offend me. Nothing really offends me. Somebody calls me a fag and I yell back to them "Yup and I wouldn't have it any other way!!"



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Linzin



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PostPosted: 05/03/13 5:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Part of the problem is that even a lot of Native Americans don't really seem to mind, although that may have changed recently, I don't know. I know that the figures I saw when we discussed this in one of my classes showed a substantial majority of NAs saying the name is acceptable. Obviously whether those figures are reliable is another thing. (There's a short bit on those polls on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redskins_mascot_controversy#Controversy ) And what if a majority of NAs don't mind, but say, 30% do? Does that warrant changing the name?

Personally, I don't see why they couldn't change the name. It really is the equivalent of having, say, the Washington Niggers or Wetbacks. There is no context in which the word is anything but an ethnic slur. But eh... public opinion's a funny thing. I don't expect it to change in the near future.



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Admiral_Needa



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PostPosted: 05/03/13 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jim Rome had a funny rant about it some time ago... Razz Arrow

Quote:
Congratulations to ole miss for courageously doing away with its mascot, colonel rebel. Why be so hasty, I mean it's only 2003. What school wouldn't be proud to have a plantation owner lead its team onto the field every Saturday afternoon? While you're at it, why don't you bust the Cleveland Indians and Washington redskins a call and see if you can get them to get rid of their equally offensive mascots and nicknames. Redskins?! I don't think we have to worry about the New York Blackskins or L.A. Jews do we?

http://espn.go.com/eoe/rome6252003.html



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 05/03/13 6:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Martini Man wrote:
What's their logo?

Should they also change the slang name for footballs? Pigskin might be offensive to certain swines.


Let's see. Native American humans and the porky barnyard animal. Hmmm.



What's wrong with this comparison?








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PostPosted: 05/03/13 6:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
Jim Rome had a funny rant about it some time ago... Razz Arrow

Quote:
Congratulations to ole miss for courageously doing away with its mascot, colonel rebel. Why be so hasty, I mean it's only 2003. What school wouldn't be proud to have a plantation owner lead its team onto the field every Saturday afternoon? While you're at it, why don't you bust the Cleveland Indians and Washington redskins a call and see if you can get them to get rid of their equally offensive mascots and nicknames. Redskins?! I don't think we have to worry about the New York Blackskins or L.A. Jews do we?

http://espn.go.com/eoe/rome6252003.html


You can change the Redskins name when you ban Jim Rome from any form of media in perpetuity. Until then, no.
Admiral_Needa



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PostPosted: 05/03/13 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jim Rome also had a great segment on "The Fighting Whites". Idea Arrow

The Fightin' Whities were an intramural college basketball team who named themselves as such to make a satirical protest about stereotypes of Native Americans being used as sports mascots.. Especially after their local High School named themselves the "Fightin' Reds". And the HS didn't decide to name themselves the "Fightin' Reds" a long time ago... it was in the 2000s! In fact, the school is still named the "Fightin' Reds" and is still using the same mascot!

As Jim Rome said in the segment: "My new favorite team is now the Fightin' Whities!" Laughing





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Howee



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PostPosted: 05/03/13 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The name has all the appeal and sensibility of a team name such as the "Blackskins" or "Whiteskins". Rolling Eyes



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 05/03/13 10:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What do you think the outcry would be if New Orleans decided to forgo the name Pelicans and instead call themselves the "New Orleans Blackies", and for a mascot used a racial stereotype?



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beknighted



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PostPosted: 05/03/13 10:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
Jim Rome had a funny rant about it some time ago... Razz Arrow

Quote:
While you're at it, why don't you bust the Cleveland Indians and Washington redskins a call and see if you can get them to get rid of their equally offensive mascots and nicknames. Redskins?! I don't think we have to worry about the New York Blackskins or L.A. Jews do we?

http://espn.go.com/eoe/rome6252003.html


For what it's worth, I see Indians and Braves differently than I see Redskins. Redskins is a pejorative name, while the others are descriptive. It's like the Boston Celtics.

On the "Fighting Reds," it's kind of clunky and probably doesn't work in the long run. St. John's tried once upon a time to keep the name "Redmen" by getting rid of the Indian mascot and using a guy in a red tuxedo. (I kid you not.) It was widely ridiculed for obvious reasons. If you want to keep the color, you kind of have to do what St. John's eventually did and use it as an adjective for something that doesn't have bad associations.


pilight



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PostPosted: 05/03/13 10:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:
Admiral_Needa wrote:
Jim Rome had a funny rant about it some time ago... Razz Arrow

Quote:
While you're at it, why don't you bust the Cleveland Indians and Washington redskins a call and see if you can get them to get rid of their equally offensive mascots and nicknames. Redskins?! I don't think we have to worry about the New York Blackskins or L.A. Jews do we?

http://espn.go.com/eoe/rome6252003.html


For what it's worth, I see Indians and Braves differently than I see Redskins. Redskins is a pejorative name, while the others are descriptive. It's like the Boston Celtics.


Indians might be considered questionable.

Braves is the same as Knights or Crusaders or Warriors or other names of that ilk.



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TonyL222



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PostPosted: 05/04/13 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
beknighted wrote:
Admiral_Needa wrote:
Jim Rome had a funny rant about it some time ago... Razz Arrow

Quote:
While you're at it, why don't you bust the Cleveland Indians and Washington redskins a call and see if you can get them to get rid of their equally offensive mascots and nicknames. Redskins?! I don't think we have to worry about the New York Blackskins or L.A. Jews do we?

http://espn.go.com/eoe/rome6252003.html


For what it's worth, I see Indians and Braves differently than I see Redskins. Redskins is a pejorative name, while the others are descriptive. It's like the Boston Celtics.


Indians might be considered questionable.

Braves is the same as Knights or Crusaders or Warriors or other names of that ilk.


Yet some want to do away with those as well - something I don't get. "Redskins" is completely understandable for reasons many have listed. But I don't understand the PC push to get rid of team names like Seminoles, Chiefs, Braves, Fighting Irish, Vikings, etc. I don't think any of those names have a history of derogatory use and are meant to convey strength, a warrior attitude (which is respected by most people), and resolve to prevail IMO.

Ditch the "Redskins", however.


pilight



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PostPosted: 06/11/14 12:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed src="//www.youtube.com/v/mR-tbOxlhvE?hl=en_US&version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR-tbOxlhvE



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Mysticwiz



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PostPosted: 06/11/14 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is a yearly topic around these parts.My take is different from most now days.I am a proud redskins fan,have been since birth.I understand how some may want the name changed,they see it as a pejorative.But, its a personal thing to me,you say the word redskins (in respect to sports,) and it's not a pejorative to me.If someone wants to use it in an offense manner, i could see the outrage and would be right there with them.You say the word redskins around me and i remember the history of the franchise,championships and parades and rocking RFK. Now i'm not in my 80s+ and can't go back to original intent of the name,all i can speak for is myself.

As for snyder(the owner) i can't say i blame him for not changing the name (he was also a FAN before he owned the team).As for the foundation he started nice try.But he's in a lose lose,you have a $2 billion product and people tell you to change your brand ID?

agree or disagree i understand....


TonyL222



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PostPosted: 06/12/14 3:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wiz, that's like a southerner whose always referred to black folks as "darkies." Don't really mean it as an insult, and might even say it with affection. Its just the term they've have always used and don't see a problem with it.


pilight



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PostPosted: 06/18/14 9:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/us-patent-office-cancels-redskins-trademark-registration-says-name-is-disparaging/2014/06/18/e7737bb8-f6ee-11e3-8aa9-dad2ec039789_story.html

Quote:
The United States Patent and Trademark Office has canceled the Washington Redskins trademark registration, calling the football teams name disparaging to Native Americans.



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beknighted



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PostPosted: 06/18/14 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The trademark attack is very interesting. Losing (and this is only one step along the way to actually, finally losing) wouldn't prevent them from using the name, but it would make it a lot less profitable to have the name, since they couldn't restrict sales of merchandise that used the name.

This has been going on a long time. Wikipedia tells me that this actually is the second case; the first one was filed in 1992 and wasn't resolved completely until 2009, when it was dismissed because all of the parties who were complaining waited too long to file. This one was filed by younger people. (The reason that might work was that the court decided that whether a complaint was too late depended on how long ago the complaining person turned 18.)


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PostPosted: 06/18/14 10:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

beknighted wrote:
The trademark attack is very interesting. Losing (and this is only one step along the way to actually, finally losing) wouldn't prevent them from using the name, but it would make it a lot less profitable to have the name, since they couldn't restrict sales of merchandise that used the name.

This has been going on a long time. Wikipedia tells me that this actually is the second case; the first one was filed in 1992 and wasn't resolved completely until 2009, when it was dismissed because all of the parties who were complaining waited too long to file. This one was filed by younger people. (The reason that might work was that the court decided that whether a complaint was too late depended on how long ago the complaining person turned 18.)


Yeah,we have been here before.I was joking the other day that the league will get the name change when the skins get Superbowl 5?.If that is "in place" he would be happy to change the name. He has "Washington warriors TM" waiting in the wings.


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